Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.13]) by air-df02.mail.aol.com (v128.3) with ESMTP id MAILINDF021-5ee64bc9cbed1; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 10:55:41 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D8D7D380000A3; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 10:55:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1O39Pc-0007lI-VZ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 15:54:24 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1O39Pc-0007l9-Ax for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 15:54:24 +0100 Received: from smtp104.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com ([66.196.96.80]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1O39PZ-0001pK-EY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 15:54:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 48786 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2010 14:54:15 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=snet.net; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:In-Reply-To:Importance:X-MimeOLE; b=kpwMdl4suWjIL4EWh8XQNXloALDT9m52F6pDRuQuAofnupLVITseP/3JJw7RsDTJaX5XHLwLOJVHTuP9gi6tOFh2Z6NaW3WASRJg60tADLwEwJfbIBdFTQp9vvfeup86WX0jq07KnuX0UYCjnadn4youUr3IkDBxJxV7gNJFNOg= ; Received: from MAINDESK (paulc@75.58.180.90 with login) by smtp104.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2010 07:54:14 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: .XXmOBOswBCkuxW404eTLsnd.RdCQPge3WAF X-YMail-OSG: P6Fe9eYVM1nBnD1jLI7uZhv.2nKXWOjz_W.N78z5Plsh2c6RbONotvnpT4QsOMLTB7kMOrwAF9i4WtshagOyRHfrF9.BX3MDleVdSXF_SybXhZKR3RLupTCMPxLcCSj_Pj9uvG6H_ohVWh1RL2TPVWQA4iy9tow8VxO2hKrqEWjbOPx0WDYp1XkhpVcnFLJn4SAkO7JTpGAqmpJoJYFNVCeRhpy9Pt8QpDJ_WwQE.awxymZwU_eEd5vnpxA_puYJX3t2JTRdVQCiftB3DILaktnX47Oy.x0ike00WmTOjAqX_DluVVntDjU6ujSYVCvtnsROAC_rJa6xkjGzd4Aog.TFUpT5FwN7PFvxQ4Hbs_E9gOc9w2ctc_rdbfombkKP9MaIJWtSyXIG5.EQyBLiO_fQC8m2SMV0e7VNJljLd6wjdWdZIdCmcbHrHJzkleGwxPHUwfC2AmKY1bsH X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Paul A. Cianciolo" To: Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 10:54:16 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=0.879,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: Dreamers Band update from W1VLF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004B_01CADE1C.52E52540" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400d4bc9cbeb1201 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01CADE1C.52E52540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Rik, I think that I must have omitted something. The blue barrel is the 277 mhy not counting the coils on top of the barrel. Total L was 345 mhy which was too much and forced operation to 8890Hz Still this is close to 1 nF No not yet I did not try radials yet and will make this step soon For some reason the bridge I made for 9Kz is not working, that needs to be fixed. Then I can experiment with ground radials rods etc. PauLC W1VLF -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Rik Strobbe Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 10:30 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Dreamers Band update from W1VLF Hello Paul, congrats on your achievement. Based on L = 0.277H and f = 8890Hz the antenna capacitance is 1.16nF. You must have an impressive amount of wire up in the air. Regarding "ground" : did you try radials ? 73, Rik ON7YD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Paul A. Cianciolo [paulc@snet.net] Verzonden: zaterdag 17 april 2010 15:53 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: LF: Dreamers Band update from W1VLF Markus Valued commentary as always. Plans are to continue making improvements in the station. What are your feeling about the ground at 9 KHz? Currently I am using 3 2 meter ground rods spaced 2 meters apart and 1 meter distant from the concrete basement wall of my shack. This setup is not optimum I understand and was never intended to be final ground system for my regular ham station. As a very quick and crude test I pounded an aluminum pole into the earth 2 meters deep near the 9 KHz coil. When this was connected to the existing ground there was a very small increase in the current meter. Antenna system impedance here is about 1250 Ohms with and antenna current of approx. 200 ma. Lots of work to do!!! I will make another post on grounds to the group as well. Thank you PauLC W1VLF -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Markus Vester Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 4:29 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Dreamers Band update from W1VLF Dear Paul and Jay, this is an excellent result, well done! The crossover between reactive nearfield (E ~ r^-3) and farfield (r^-1) occurs at lambda/2/pi = 5.3 km. As you seem to have quite a bit of margin there, your signal will be detectable very significantly beyond that. Assuming otherwise equal receive conditions, QRSS-120 should get you more than 6 times further than QRSS-3. Best wishes, Markus (DF6NM) ----- Original Message ----- From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:05 PM Subject: Re: LF: Dreamers Band update from W1VLF Paul, Great work! Nice looking coil! How much power can you crank through it? At 5kM, I believe that you are still in the near field (9kHz wavelength is 33km), so signal will fall off at the 3rd power of distance until you reach far-field conditions. -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 at 1:51 PM, Paul A. Cianciolo wrote: > Hello Folks, > > Today we made our first outdoor transmission on VLF. > > The system resonance forced the transmissions to take place on 8890 Hz at > least until I can get a variometer worked up. > > The distance is only 5 KM but the signal is quite good on QRSS3. > > I can only wonder how far the signal would go using QRSS 120??? > > Please comment if you can, this a great learning experience for me > > Thank you > > PauLC > W1VLF > > http://www.rescueelectronics.com/9-Kilohertz.html > ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01CADE1C.52E52540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
H= i=20 Rik,
 
I= think that I=20 must have omitted something.
T= he blue barrel=20 is the 277 mhy not counting the coils on top of the=20 barrel.
T= otal L was 345=20 mhy which was too much and forced operation to 8890Hz
S= till this is=20 close to 1 nF
 
N= o not yet I did=20 not try radials yet and will make this step soon
For some reason the=20 bridge I made for 9Kz is not working, that needs to be=20 fixed.
Then I can=20 experiment with ground radials rods etc.
 
PauLC=20
W1VLF
 
 
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Rik=20 Strobbe
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 10:30 AM
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: RE: LF: Dreamers Band= update=20 from W1VLF

Hello Paul,
 
congrats on your achievement.
Based on L =3D 0.277H and f =3D 88= 90Hz the antenna=20 capacitance is 1.16nF. You must have an impressive amount= of wire up=20 in the air.
Regarding "ground" : did you try= =20 radials ? 
 
73, Rik  ON7YD 
&= nbsp;
Van:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.o= rg] namens=20 Paul A. Cianciolo [paulc@snet.net]
Verzonden: zaterdag 17= april 2010=20 15:53
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: RE: LF:=20 Dreamers Band update from W1VLF

Markus=20
 
Valued=20 commentary as always. Plans are to continue making improvements in= the=20 station. 
 
What are your=20 feeling about the ground at 9 KHz?
 
Currently I am=20 using 3   2 meter ground rods spaced 2 meters apart = and 1=20 meter distant from the concrete basement wall of my=20 shack.
 
This setup is=20 not optimum I understand and was never intended to be final ground= system for=20 my regular ham station.
 
As a very quick=20 and crude test I pounded an aluminum pole into the earth 2 meters de= ep near=20 the 9 KHz coil.
When this was=20 connected to the existing ground there was a very small increase in= the=20 current meter.
 
Antenna system=20 impedance here is about 1250 Ohms  with and antenna current of= approx.=20 200 ma.
Lots of work to=20 do!!!
 
I will make=20 another post on grounds to the group as well.
 
Thank=20 you
 
PauLC
W1VLF
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -----Original=20 Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Marku= s=20 Vester
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 4:29 PM
To:= =20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Dreamers Ban= d update=20 from W1VLF

Dear Paul and Jay,
 
this is an excellent result, well= done!=20
 
The crossover between reacti= ve nearfield=20 (E ~ r^-3) and farfield (r^-1) occurs at lambda/2/pi =3D= 5.3=20 km. As you seem to have quite a bit of margin there, you= r signal=20 will be detectable very significantly beyond that. Assum= ing=20 otherwise equal receive conditions, QRSS-120 should get you more= than 6=20 times further than QRSS-3.
 
Best wishes,
Markus (DF6NM)
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Warren Ziegler=20
Sent: Friday, April 16,= 2010 8:05=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Dreamers= Band update=20 from W1VLF

Paul,

   &= nbsp;  Great=20 work! Nice looking coil!  How much power can you crank thro= ugh=20 it?
At 5kM, I believe that you are still in the near field=20 (9kHz
wavelength is 33km), so signal will fall off at the 3rd= power=20 of
distance until you reach far-field conditions.

--=
73=20 Warren=20 K2ORS
         &= nbsp;     =20 WD2XGJ
         =       =20 WD2XSH/23
        &nb= sp;      =20 WE2XEB/2
        &nbs= p;      =20 WE2XGR/1


 at 1:51 PM, Paul A. Cianciolo <paulc@snet.net> wrote:<= BR>> Hello=20 Folks,
>
> Today we made our first outdoor transmiss= ion on=20 VLF.
>
> The system resonance forced the transmissio= ns to take=20 place on 8890 Hz at
> least until I can get a variometer= worked=20 up.
>
> The distance is only 5 KM but the signal is= quite good=20 on QRSS3.
>
> I can only wonder how far the signal= would go=20 using QRSS 120???
>
> Please comment if you can, thi= s a great=20 learning experience for me
>
> Thank you
>
= >=20 PauLC
> W1VLF
>
> http= ://www.rescueelectronics.com/9-Kilohertz.html
>
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