Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.91]) by air-df02.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDF023-5ee84bd84711191; Wed, 28 Apr 2010 10:32:49 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 193873800008E; Wed, 28 Apr 2010 10:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1O78Ip-0004K7-OO for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Apr 2010 15:31:51 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1O78Io-0004IL-Re for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Apr 2010 15:31:50 +0100 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1O78Im-0002Mb-LO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Apr 2010 15:31:50 +0100 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 980B551C003 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2010 16:31:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N1.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n1.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.11]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C36631E702 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2010 16:31:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N1.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.11]) with mapi; Wed, 28 Apr 2010 16:31:40 +0200 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 16:31:40 +0200 Thread-Topic: W1VLF 8.97 KHz UPDATE Trees, Questions, Ground Thread-Index: Acrm3KdrnQ3n7A+qSW20YrNkmzEDEwAAIJZS Message-ID: References: <003201cae3db$b7ffad50$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: RE: W1VLF 8.97 KHz UPDATE Trees, Questions, Ground Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C19A2156E82ICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_FONTCOLOR_RED, HTML_MESSAGE,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405b4bd8470a271d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C19A2156E82ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Paul, Looking here http://rescueelectronics.com/9-Kilohertz.html near the botto= m of the page one can see that the tower is backed up by forest. I wondered how much, if any, effect on antenna current running a long rad= ial out in the forest would have? It might increase the loss resistance. It is a kind of trade-off: one the one hand more "area coverage" will redu= ce the loss resistance (cfr. Laurie's footprint theorie) on the other hand= coming close to or even going over any greenry will cause an increase of= the loss resistance. If it isn't too much trouble: just try and measure A) Am I just giving the trees a better return path or ground connection= (the radial) to the coil??? And the power is being eaten up by the trees??? OR B) Is there a chance this power is actually being radiated, and therefore= I should pursuit accumulating these grounds, and their current and return= it to the coil?? The only way to avoid that power is "eaten" by the trees is staying way fr= om them (or remove them). Apart from than there is little you can do. Or maybe trow wires over the= tree and connect these wires to the ground system (not very practial I'm= afraid). But, with or without trees:, the better the ground system (rod's) the more= efficient the antenna will be. What is a tree at 9 KHz??? A very lossy capacitor ? 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C19A2156E82ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Paul,

Looking here  http://rescueelectronics.com/9-= Kilohertz.html near the bottom of the page one can see that the tower is= backed up by forest.
I wondered how much, if any,  effect on antenna current running a lon= g radial out in the forest would have?

It might increase the loss resistance.

It is a kind of trade-off: one the one= hand more "area coverage" will reduce the loss resistance (cfr.= Laurie's footprint theorie) on the other hand coming close to or even goi= ng over any greenry will cause an increase of the loss resistance.

If it isn't too much trouble: just try= and measure

A) Am I just giving the trees a better return path= or  ground connection (the radial)  to the coil???
And the power is being eaten up by the trees???
OR
B)  Is there a chance this power is actually being radiated, and ther= efore I should pursuit accumulating these grounds, and their current and= return it to the coil??

The only way to avoid that power is "eaten" by the trees is= staying way from them (or remove them).

Apart from than there is little you can= do. Or maybe trow wires over the tree and connect these wires to the grou= nd system (not very practial I'm afraid).

But, with or without trees:, the better= the ground system (rod's) the more efficient the antenna will be.<= /p>


What is a tree at 9 KHz???
A very lossy capacitor ?


73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T

--_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C19A2156E82ICTSSEXC2CAlu_--