Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.11]) by air-mf04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF044-8be84ba318f0251; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 02:25:52 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8D6A138000146; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 02:25:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NsVcv-0002Fx-3s for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 06:24:09 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NsVcu-0002Fo-FL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 06:24:08 +0000 Received: from parrot.netcom.co.uk ([217.72.171.49]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NsVcs-0001kL-Co for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 06:24:08 +0000 Received: from abelian.netcom.co.uk (i-194-106-52-83.freedom2surf.net [194.106.52.83]) by parrot.netcom.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBBD0327873 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 06:21:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by abelian.netcom.co.uk (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o2J6NxCO029648 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 06:23:59 GMT Message-ID: <4BA3187E.9010801@abelian.org> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 06:23:58 +0000 From: Paul Nicholson User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4BA0A501.5050506@abelian.org> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B66@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B66@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: VLF: TA, 300m and new PA? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600b4ba318ee628d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Stefan schrieb: > what would be the TX power i have to apply to a 300m > vertical to reach Canada/USA, Well, to extrapolate so far from a single data point would be very silly. But silly can be fun, so .... Given B = sqrt( 9.5e-21 * ERP/r) * exp( -r/a) where a = 2.9e6 for daytime path, or 4.3e6 for nighttime path, day and night charts are plotted here, http://abelian.org/vlf/prop9-day.png http://abelian.org/vlf/prop9-night.png You will have to cross 5200km to Nova Scotia, or 6500km to US east coast. Assume a nighttime path where the rx is still just in daylight and current noise levels. Then 30mW ERP is detectable in Nova Scotia and 100mW ERP is needed for east USA. > => antenna efficiency at 8,97kHz will be 0,0064%. Then 500W needed for Nova Scotia, 1.5kW for east USA. That's just to get a reliable detection with say 10-30 minutes averaging of pure carrier in 5mHz bandwidth and assumes the propagations doesn't spread the signal much beyond that bandwidth. To actually get a message across would take a bit more. As I said the other day, it will need every bit of ingenuity... And anyway, there is nobody in North America with a suitable rx at the moment! Remember, those propagation charts are just a guess. If we bother to dig into the relevant textbooks, the field strength can just be calculated - all the basic research was done a long time ago - lots of cold war propagation studies and scientific research. But often it is fun to work things out for oneself, to enjoy the sense of discovery. At the moment I think those charts are inaccurate at long distance - maybe not quite enough difference between day/night to account for observed diurnal noise level changes. Perhaps with some arithmetic - integrating average worldwide lightning activity weighted by the above formula to get an average background estimate... For me, the power levels for this long DX are getting worryingly high as they will at some point start to cause interference to research activity. The VLF band is heavily used for geophysical research and nobody is supposed to be transmitting there - despite what the UK and German licensing authorities may say. Someone familiar with ITU agreements may be able to clarify the position. Soundings into the research community don't bring an encouraging response, varying from "what's the point?" to some degree of horror. I am anxious to identify a genuine use for amateur signals - something beyond the usual pointless beeping. -- Paul Nicholson --