Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.132]) by air-dd03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD032-86314bad251f23a; Fri, 26 Mar 2010 17:20:31 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B274138000088; Fri, 26 Mar 2010 17:20:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NvGwV-0008VA-0g for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Mar 2010 21:19:47 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NvGwU-0008V0-I7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Mar 2010 21:19:46 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NvGwS-00014l-Gw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Mar 2010 21:19:46 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o2QLJgjT017075 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2010 22:19:42 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2010 22:19:43 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 22:19:42 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B98@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B98@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: Question about ground impedance at 8.97 KHZ Stefan. Thread-Index: AcrNFLJrc2sxhJbWSTaaCgGMtoQxWAADcijFAAGGpwY= References: <4BAC6F82.5020300@abelian.org>, From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.844;26.03.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.3.26.210929 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CACD2A.0D4C4203" Subject: LF: AW: RE: Question about ground impedance at 8.97 KHZ Stefan. X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/56743 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40844bad251d0aed X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CACD2A.0D4C4203 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Rik, Paul, VLF,=20 =20 In the 2nd test, the maximum power was 250W but the 0,48A is the estimated= average current (depending on the kite movement). The maximum current was= about 0,55A, so the total resistance is about 825 Ohm. The coil has about= 300 Ohm (280 measured + the variometer part, estimated) so the surroundin= g losses are about 500 Ohm. =20 Sorry that i cannot tell you exact values but this all is due to the kite= movement, you know. The ERP becomes even more an estimation since when th= e kite changes it's angle, the effective height decreases + the antenna cu= rrent. But we still have high integration times and some dB S/N reserve fo= r the most stns and thus it obviously works... =20 BTW: A next step for my setup: I got the confirmation of my insurance, tha= t is needed to get the 300m (height) permission! ;-)=20 =20 73, Stefan/DK7FC =20 =20 ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Rik Strobbe Gesendet: Fr 26.03.2010 21:35 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: RE: Question about ground impedance at 8.97 KHZ Stefan. Paul, I believe that Marcus reported a loss resistance ("ground loss") of about= 1 kOhm. For Stefan: based on 250W/0.48A the total loss resistance should be 1085= Ohm. The coil (553mH, Q=3D82) counts for 380 Ohm, so "ground loss" is abo= ut 700 Ohm. So unless you are living on solid rock or in a desert 70 kOhm seem very hi= gh. Do you know the loss on 137kHz ? I guess that on 10kHz it will be 20 to 50= times more. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ________________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens Paul A. Cianciolo [paulc@snet.net] Verzonden: vrijdag 26 maart 2010 19:38 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: LF: Question about ground impedance at 8.97 KHZ Stefan. Hello All, Below is a quote from the Stefan's web page concerning his latest "Dreamer= s Band" DX contact Congratulations again Stefan. >From this information alone is it possible to calculate or know the antenn= a system impedance. "100m Vertical wire antenna, coil/antenna voltage was abt 15kV rms, averag= e antenna current about 480mA, giving up to 1,7mW ERP. Applied power was= up to 250W." Pertaining to the coil "Technical and mechanical data: L=3D553mH, Q=3D82,= R(DC)=3D283 Ohm; 0,4mm diameter enameled copper wire, about 1200 turns!= Average diameter 0,55m, height abt 0,5m. So, about 2000m wire! :-)" I have built a small impedance bridge that operates at 10 KHZ and shows my= sloping 170' wire as 70K Ohms. I can also see approx 500 PF that can be= nulled out using the bridge? Can the 70K value possibly be correct? (3) 6' ground rods about 6' apart= are the ground... plus the electrical ground of the house. I am hoping to attempt a local transmission on 9KHZ Any information would be helpful. 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