Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.214]) by air-da03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA032-86134ba018c121c; Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:48:17 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5E3A938000091; Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NrgTS-0001OU-5O for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:46:58 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NrgTR-0001OL-NT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:46:57 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NrgTO-0007wk-Sq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:46:57 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o2GNkm74028901 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 00:46:48 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 00:46:49 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 00:46:48 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B65@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B65@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: AW: LF: 8.97kHz antennas Thread-Index: AcrFX06VU7jXzZvDQo665+1oJrdjfgAAmNwP References: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.3.16.233337 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAC562.F1EA170B" Subject: AW: AW: LF: 8.97kHz antennas X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/56329 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d64ba018bf7f4f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAC562.F1EA170B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, sorry. I noted that mistake as the message was already sent. Normally= i know it ;-) =20 Alexander, it is important to give a good analysation of the received sign= al (and noise) if we want to get new findings how we can go on on VLF. Pau= l did that very well. You seem clearly to be also one of those who can eva= luate such a signal.=20 Have you thought about getting QRV? Now, a distance of 1000km seems not to= be totally utopic any more and maybe, if you have a good QTH you could be= one of the next stns! What is your locator? What do you think about becom= ing QRV? =20 73, Stefan ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Paul Nicholson Gesendet: Di 16.03.2010 23:29 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: AW: LF: 8.97kHz antennas Stefan schrieb: > The most enjoyable finding (within ham experiments)is, that the > E field decay relly seems to be rather ~ 1/sqrt(d) than ~1/d :-) 1/sqrt(d) is doing better than 1/d, so far with just one data point to go by. > Does that mean that if the ERP is 3dB higher (21kV instead of the > 15kV i had yesterday), the maximum distance will be 4 times the > old distance, ideally? There is also an attenuation factor. Approx 3dB per 1000km in daylight, and 2dB/1000km at night, at 10kHz. Combine that with 1/sqrt(d) and we are getting a good match with your measured flux density. The D layer is quite absorbing to higher frequencies, but at VLF it is more of a mirror. It is appropriate then to look at propagation in terms of cavity modes, as compared to following rays. 9kHz is a bad frequency - background noise is highest there because lightning energy couples well to the Earth-ionosphere cavity at that frequency, giving a broad peak in the noise spectrum. Better might be say 2kHz, just above the waveguide cut-off frequency, where noise is low. Obviously lower ERP but maybe the lower noise more than compensates? Must do some arithmetic... (Always there is more arithmetic. Flying kites sounds nice.) Earth 'loops'? Could work in some situations. Limestone country with underground stream to complete the loop? Top to bottom of a long rocky escarpment, forcing current to go the long way round? Oxbow bend in a stream over rock or clay? Hard to model. Easy and fun to test. -- Paul Nicholson -- ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAC562.F1EA170B Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjIXAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAHQAAAEFXOiBBVzogTEY6IDguOTdr SHogYW50ZW5uYXMASwgBBYADAA4AAADaBwMAEQAAAC4AMAADAFYBASCAAwAOAAAA2gcDABEAAAAu ADEAAwBXAQEJgAEAIQAAADVGRjkyN0MxMkI5NjIzNDg5MDVDOTRCNkJBNkVERDI1AD4HAQOQBgDg EwAAOAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AAsX6vFixcoBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAQVc6IAAAAAACAUcAAQAAADIA AABjPURFO2E9IDtwPUhTVDtsPUZJTEUtU0VSVkVSLUgtMTAwMzE2MjM0NjQ4Wi0xOTE4AAAAHgBJ AAEAAAAdAAAAUmU6IEFXOiBMRjogOC45N2tIeiBhbnRlbm5hcwAAAABAAE4AAHUOolzFygEeAFoA AQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVsAAQAAAGMAAAAA AAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3Jn AFNNVFAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVwLm9yZwAAAgFcAAEAAAAoAAAAU01U 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