Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.141]) by air-mb03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB032-a21d4b8da7df3c8; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 19:05:51 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BD3F9380000C3; Tue, 2 Mar 2010 19:05:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nmc50-00053x-1R for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2010 00:04:46 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nmc4z-00053o-Km for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2010 00:04:45 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nmc4w-0002jw-Rk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2010 00:04:45 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o2304eRD028323 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2010 01:04:40 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Wed, 03 Mar 2010 01:04:41 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 01:04:40 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B2D@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B2D@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: coil Thread-Index: Acq6VDWFUiMyMe2NSoWN9/+nTzAwGAADvljt References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B2A@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <00da01caba53$738e06a0$0201a8c0@Clemens04> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.3.2.235419 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CABA65.1E8E1ECB" Subject: LF: coil X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55723 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408d4b8da7dd3d8f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CABA65.1E8E1ECB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Clemens,=20 =20 Yes, sorry, i meant currents due to the stray capacitance between the wind= ings, not due to a low ohmic resistance of their insulation. Stray current= s surely also occur. Since its rated current is 12,5A the reason is not a= too thin wire in it ;-) =20 73, Stefan ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Clemens Paul Gesendet: Di 02.03.2010 22:58 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: VLF TX experiments_short report Hi Stefan, >...But thus the internal C is high, so stray currents occur that increase= the resistive >losses. Additionally the >proximity effect plays its role... Do you mean circulating currents by 'stray currents' ? Did you measure the self resonant frequency of your coil? As long as you operate at half its self resonant frequency stray capacitan= ce won't hurt regarding losses. >Q is low, just abt 38 and thus i get such a low voltage at a given power.= But i will build a >own VLF coil soon, >with the needed L so that no parallel C will be requi= red. Doubling a given inductance by a parallel C will quadruple losses at the= same frequency. 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ------_=_NextPart_001_01CABA65.1E8E1ECB Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IioAAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEABQAAAGNvaWwApwEBBYADAA4AAADa BwMAAwABAAQAKAADABcBASCAAwAOAAAA2gcDAAMAAQAEACgAAwAXAQEJgAEAIQAAADVEQUU0QjAx OEQ1QUVGNDg4NUM5RjU2RjAxOEM4Nzk4AFsHAQOQBgBEDwAAOAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AMsejh5l usoBHgA9AAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAAIBRwABAAAAMgAAAGM9REU7YT0gO3A9SFNUO2w9RklMRS1TRVJW RVItSC0xMDAzMDMwMDA0NDBaLTEzMTgAAAAeAEkAAQAAACgAAABSZTogTEY6IFZMRiBUWCBleHBl cmltZW50c19zaG9ydCByZXBvcnQAQABOAIBUjG9TusoBHgBaAAEAAAAjAAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9s Zl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVwLm9yZwAAAgFbAAEAAABjAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIA AAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVwLm9yZwBTTVRQAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZf Z3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAAAIBXAABAAAAKAAAAFNNVFA6T1dORVItUlNHQl9MRl9HUk9V UEBCTEFDS1NIRUVQLk9SRwAeAF0AAQAAAA4AAABDbGVtZW5zICBQYXVsAAAAAgFeAAEAAAA5AAAA AAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAQ2xlbWVucyAgUGF1bABTTVRQAGNwYXVsQGdteC5uZXQA AAAAAgFfAAEAAAATAAAAU01UUDpDUEFVTEBHTVguTkVUAAAeAGYAAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4A ZwABAAAAIwAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAAB4AaAABAAAABQAA AFNNVFAAAAAAHgBpAAEAAAAOAAAAY3BhdWxAZ214Lm5ldAAAAB4AcAABAAAABQAAAGNvaWwAAAAA AgFxAAEAAAAbAAAAAcq6VDWFUiMyMe2NSoWN9/+nTzAwGAADvljtAB4AdAABAAAAHQAAAHJzZ2Jf bGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAAAAAHgAaDAEAAAAPAAAAU3RlZmFuIFNjaORmZXIAAB4A HQ4BAAAABQAAAGNvaWwAAAAAAgEJEAEAAADSBwAAzgcAABwZAABMWkZ1XJxwjAMACgByY3BnMTI1 gjIDQ2h0bWwxAzA/AQMB9wqAAqQD4wIAY2jBCsBzZXQwIAcTAoD/EAMAUARWCFUHshHVDlEDAd0Q 1zIGAAbDEdUzBEYQ2VkS72Y0EG8RezUDxlR8YWgDcQKAEeMI7wn3O3scHw4wNR0/HRER4QxgY2cA UAsJAWQzNhFgC6U0ciAQAipcDrIBkA4QOQAgPEhUTUwgZIhpcj0isHI+fSJz5wAhAzAjwWRvAOAj wQqx/FxxHAAjwRjgAzAkJRFgjSIrMyIAIyBFQUQj8AkiLDc3IxBUSVRMDkUoHSHwDvBSZTogNExG KvBWKxAasFggOGV4cAZxB4ACMHNf1nMa4AAgIB6gcBvBKC10ODUjEC8pXyLCCuMgFy7vL/8OEDYO 8DxNRSBUQSBuYQeAPUcARU5FUkFUT1LOIAWgAjAsMT0iBeAjMyA4LjAwLiFgMDHmLi4gDjA5Iigd KqEuYC8n3ypxMS8iwTURYDxCOE9EWSgdIXE4n2c5IjYjEERJViN2IGnEZD09cE9XQSrQC1AEeVQr wHQ0OTI3/jAj+QAAJSUlwyWBJh86vz87zzzXPt8/70DzIkk2NCdEakC/IqQ0OCMQRk/MTlQz4Rux PSM1EErC2iAAkHozMBTwZgDQMzD7BxNEW2MT8AOyAdADMSIAMUhISGVsG7AXEGxlqSwhcywiHTU8 gS9KAv8j+SQHRqsBwCQHCqJRqAqA9SIsMCehLzyxUP9In0IP/0MfRC9FP1HfR19W/0l8Sz+/WotN b17+UG9WnyJYOCIAYCZuYnNwAoAkGCf+YQFAXG9S31PvVP9WD2YP/1gvWT9aT1tfaL9df23fX5+3 YK9hv03LWQeQT2BzBbDkcnlPYGkgB4AAcAVAPmMIcB6gLEFw8ApQIHQpTtB0aHxwcyPQYXmlM+Bh CrBjaQGQbngAdCBiEUB3CeF8swPwbslxAG5nT1FubwVAfFWMYSAbsAfgb2htDeDvLNEAkH0AfdNv JIB8wXEQSz1gAIB1C2B0aQIgLn8GAH0Ue9aCUB6gPiCAIGz7etCAgGN7wYLRC4B4AGZvv2d/aIp9 sAQgfSA0IGR7tuc9YAQgDiAsNTLgfMIeoP5hetADoIlhf4KAMHyQfKIfC4B+0R6ggiGIMSA7Lf4p Y59kr1Gvaa9qv2vPbN//dY9u/3APcR9yL3M/dE91X/92b3d/eI9ir4zPjd+gL4Xv/4b/jz+QT5Ff km+ib5SPlZ//lq+Xv5jPmd+a76tPnQ+eH/OfL7KmNzNPYILwARAAcP+gv6HPjs+mz6ffqO+p/7Kv /74Pvx+rf6yPrZ+ur6+/wr/2MQ4gOdFSI/oKsQqBx+/bw3/Ei0gz0AGRSX8AK8BYPS0xtawAUHEA 4HEiagxgbGRiAzB+IN5f0ILQQSSgC4BlvHPKr9/LvrEPsh+zL7Q/PRrEta//AzEuQNU/o/c54MYL 0DHZ19pWAiA6zLzJYS/berppJYCAd9Ewci0ZEGdiMF9sZl8JwAhgcECbAmAA0GssgAngcC4FsOpn PWBtEXB1AYB9IOIAxnaKcU71IFBhgmDIfX88gcmc0RLRr9q/28/mkkd3B5AJ8AEAdN1P3l/fZ0TJ e0AwMjUAMy4B0MEAwCAyMjo1OOPf5O/v5f/nD+gf8IRB3T/rD99Y/+Bf4Wnt7+7/8A/xH/Iv+sT+ QhFAHqABIPO/9M/fZyrf/yvvLPP4L/k/+k+4f7mPBe//A/8FD7rPu9+878C/CA/ST3/MX8T3xgsQ zxHf09kjEFD/yb8UqBQPCQ/WvdhvTep7QP235CwJPwpPBY8fDyAfIS+po+lndKTZPiQ4Lidg7EJ1 ivB8wHV8MHzCjBBtiKByMwDHsEOJUouAZ/5oerJ89nvWhKN8sYKAgiGeY4oyfHGKA4ESaXaFXL8i ryO/JM8l3y9WgFBz6aDyc4LQQWTFkIKShFCEIa98wi/fMO8vZXD28HjiIOd9sIQw/hFlY4rwPhB9 MPd8MIhDSmBlJ2Es3y3vLv/XON857zr5RE7QefcAe1O/iNCCAITAgnJ/MHu4YoQw4icp3CcgPzuv PL89zf5piMA+1YPifLROoBhAgPHrM0F7kWb+AHF/0H3ghDDPgaE+0YIQSlBpbEH/Qw99Or1BfDCA UD/xilA+w2//AgGIkYAgivArMEZhiEJGT+9HVX0PftDi4CdNEYjwA1/3SZ86vf4AZxZQfxIyVlEP f1IfOs9VT1ZfV280XzVvIG5RiVKAUbfAaifwivFifYrwM9bAe4CIwCfTe0Bn/+ngg9HHcIAl4tAX IkzjgDD+ZyyhioADIH5QhOEnkntAt37gM3B+EHVIYIjAYVgf/1kvWj9bT1xfZiLf8QFjSEL/esHi 4LfAZm9nf2X1fuB8wO98s9EwiLCIsUwpkisjitD/NnAWUDNhhBAo4WKkihJHUP2L0WRVD2RvZX9w b3F/Pez+dfdAP+JhVn7xYAB9xYQx425/R1BhZHL3EOMgMlX7TPJ8w2FFgEcYcD90T3Jf/3vvfP9+ Cregfs9/333s4xUHge+C/z3NTDRSQUr/hV+Gb33viO+J/4sPjB+NL/+OPwb/EC8ZSA2eF9+RPwyk //9BF6EOnw+vlv8XBO3A/0JIT0RZmM0yN/9BSChUTUwXsH2esAAAHgA1EAEAAABXAAAAPDM4QTUx Qjc0Qjg4NEQ3NDA4M0Q3OTUwQUQwREQ4NUU4MkExQjJEQEZpbGUtU2VydmVyLUhTVC5oc3QuZS10 ZWNobmlrLnR1LWRhcm1zdGFkdC5kZT4AAB4AORABAAAAxAAAADxQaW5lLkxOWC4zLjk1LjExMDAz MDIxODM2MTQuMjU2RC0xMDAwMDBAbm9uYW1lLm5vZG9tYWluLm5vd2hlcmU+IDwzOEE1MUI3NEI4 ODRENzQwODNENzk1MEFEMEREODVFODJBMUIyQUBGaWxlLVNlcnZlci1IU1QuaHN0LmUtdGVjaG5p ay50dS1kYXJtc3RhZHQuZGU+IDwwMGRhMDFjYWJhNTMkNzM4ZTA2YTAkMDIwMWE4YzBAQ2xlbWVu czA0PgAeAEcQAQAAAA8AAABtZXNzYWdlL3JmYzgyMgAACwDyEAEAAAAfAPMQAQAAABIAAABjAG8A aQBsAC4ARQBNAEwAAAAAAAsA9hAAAAAAQAAHMDs33i5jusoBQAAIMC0wwB5lusoBAwDeP69vAAAD APE/BwQAAB4A+D8BAAAADwAAAFN0ZWZhbiBTY2jkZmVyAAACAfk/AQAAAFwAAAAAAAAA3KdAyMBC EBq0uQgAKy/hggEAAAAAAAAAL089SFNUL09VPUVSU1RFIEFETUlOSVNUUkFUSVZFIEdSVVBQRS9D Tj1SRUNJUElFTlRTL0NOPVNDSEFFRkVSAB4A+j8BAAAAFQAAAFN5c3RlbSBBZG1pbmlzdHJhdG9y AAAAAAIB+z8BAAAAHgAAAAAAAADcp0DIwEIQGrS5CAArL+GCAQAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAwD9P+QEAAAD ABlAAAAAAAMAGkAAAAAAAwAdQAAAAAADAB5AAAAAAB4AMEABAAAACQAAAFNDSEFFRkVSAAAAAB4A MUABAAAACQAAAFNDSEFFRkVSAAAAAB4AMkABAAAAIwAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxh Y2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAAB4AM0ABAAAADgAAAGNwYXVsQGdteC5uZXQAAAAeADhAAQAAAAkAAABTQ0hB RUZFUgAAAAAeADlAAQAAAAIAAAAuAAAAAwB2QP////8LACkAAAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAGEJduzAgD AAcQfwMAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABIRUxMT0NMRU1FTlMsWUVTLFNPUlJZ LElNRUFOVENVUlJFTlRTRFVFVE9USEVTVFJBWUNBUEFDSVRBTkNFQkVUV0VFTlRIRVdJTkRJTkdT LE5PVERVRVRPQUxPV09ITUlDUkVTAAAAAAIBfwABAAAAVwAAADwzOEE1MUI3NEI4ODRENzQwODNE Nzk1MEFEMEREODVFODJBMUIyREBGaWxlLVNlcnZlci1IU1QuaHN0LmUtdGVjaG5pay50dS1kYXJt c3RhZHQuZGU+AAB8AQ== ------_=_NextPart_001_01CABA65.1E8E1ECB--