Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.87]) by air-md01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD012-8b754b855ac114; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:58:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AB90C3800010A; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:58:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkKXv-0006QG-Rf for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:57:11 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkKXv-0006Q7-Fm for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:57:11 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkKXt-0005qE-JC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:57:11 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1OGv55i058178 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:57:06 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA00374 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:02:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:02:06 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:57:08 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498 Subject: RE: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.0 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40574b855ab5782f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > > if using a short vertical monopole antenna at 9kHz a ground loss of more than 1000 Ohm seems quite realistic to me. > "Ground loss" at my QTH: > 500kHz = 35 Ohm > 137kHz = 130 Ohm I don't think it is real ground stake loss. Mainly it is 'enviroment' loss (due to trees, house e.t.c.). > The frequency ratio is 3.65, the resistance ratio is 0.27 = 1/3.7 > If this 1/f behaviour goes down to 9kHz (not sure) I don't think so. This behaviour should change. Good insulator (HF frequency) or good conductor (VLF freqency) in enviroment does not yelds losses. Trees are good conductors on VLF. And they are good insulators on HF. MF is 'unfortunely case' :-) > Regarding the parallel capacitor: you are right, it will not reduce the > losses. It will increse loss:-) > But it is much easier (and cheaper) to make a 3mH coil than a > 30mH coil and it will also transform the large loss resistance to a more > convenient value. True, true... But large coil will be much better anyway. I heve perform very rough estimations. Seems real radiation (not quasistatic near field) is posible on 9 kHz. Certanly with very small radiated power. If TX is 1 kW (really) and antenna height is 30 m (difficult, but reallly) and coil is abt 1 m in diameter then one can achive about 0.1 mW radiation. This yelds about 1 uV/m in distanse of 100 km. Seems to be enough for QRSS (not CW i think, very strong noise). Calculations was 'in mind' so i am not sure they are right. But anyway 30m high good top loaded antenna has about 1 mOhm radiate resistance on lamda=30km (10 kHz). Then 1 A in ant yelds 1 mW ERP (and about 20 kvolts on ant if C=1 nF i.e. abt 200 m wire in horisontal part). 1 mW is not too low power:-) But one need 'clear' square for this without trees, houses e.t.c. Seems it is a main problem:-( Regards, Alexander/RA9MB