Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Received: from mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.208]) by air-de06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE064-5eb94b82720d231; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:01:17 -0500
Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20])
	by mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 87DF1380000A5;
	Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:01:15 -0500 (EST)
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14)
	id 1NjWxP-0000jz-5X
	for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:00:11 +0000
Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net)
	by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14)
	id 1NjWxO-0000jq-KQ
	for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:00:10 +0000
Received: from thsmsgxrt13p.thalesgroup.com ([192.54.144.136])
	by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63)
	(envelope-from <Jean-Louis.RAULT@fr.thalesgroup.com>)
	id 1NjWxL-0000tg-TE
	for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:00:10 +0000
Received: from thsmsgirt21p.corp.thales (unknown [10.33.231.5])
	by thsmsgxrt13p.thalesgroup.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39145361032
	for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:00:01 +0100 (CET)
Received: from thsmsgiav13p.corp.thales (10.33.231.33) by thsmsgirt21p.corp.thales (8.5.103)
        id 4B0E9ABB00B2BEC2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:00:01 +0100
Received: from (unknown [10.33.231.1]) by thsmsgiav13p.corp.thales with smtp
	 id 1d64_802f_ce10310a_1fa9_11df_a50f_0013725f4d82;
	Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:00:01 +0100
Received: from NODALNET.clb.tcfr.thales (unknown [10.33.8.19])
	by thsmsgirt11p.corp.thales (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1719059802F
	for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:00:01 +0100 (CET)
Received: by nodalnet.clb.tcfr.thales with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
	id <FN7N8VFZ>; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:00:00 +0100
Message-ID: <BFF6723B062BFF40B4B7A6CF670160B402F053CB@argos2.clb.tcfr.thales>
From: Jean-Louis.RAULT@fr.thalesgroup.com
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:59:59 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/)
X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55
Subject: RE: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB3B6.8EEC21A0"
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,
	HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63
X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes
Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org
X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false
x-aol-global-disposition: G
x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d04b82720b29dd
X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20


------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB3B6.8EEC21A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Rik
=20
In a french book called "Poste 85" describing the beginning of the electro=
nics era during WW1 (telephone, radio, gonio, etc) , it is said that it wa=
s possible to listen to enemy telephone conversations by putting some rods=
 in the ground and connecting them to a 3 triodes amplifier (the return au=
dio ground current of the wire telephones were strong enough to allow conv=
ersations spying)=20
=20
Jean-Louis F6AGR


  _____ =20

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@black=
sheep.org] On Behalf Of Rik Strobbe
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 12:21 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS


Hello Stefan,

what about "going underground".
I do remind an article on communication via some kind of ground antennas=
 in the WW1 (or WW2 ?) trenches (I guess it wasn't very convenient to put=
 up antennas within the sight of the enemy).
If I recall it right quite low frequencies were used.
Googling on "ground antenna war" resulted in this : http://www.rexresearch=
.com/rogers/1rogers.htm <http://www.rexresearch.com/rogers/1rogers.htm> =
=20

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T

At 10:32 22/02/2010, you wrote:


Hello Horst,=20
=20
That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some motivated OMs in=
 the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting field to test.
=20
Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for that ra=
nge and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna tower. The=
re, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in parallel. You=
 do not need to have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the wire=
 and nobody will care about it.
Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some trees=
 on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m. The loop=
 has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect matching from 160=
m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 2200m without=
 a problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one would try 2x 10=
*100m on VLF, the ODX would be interesting...
=20
JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-)
=20
What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some commercial VLF=
 stations in that range? Are there some?
=20
73, Stefan
=20
PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-)


  _____ =20

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker
Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS

Hallo Stefan,

there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the range <9k=
Hz is free.

I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got a=
 letter which confirmed that.

So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not need=
 one.

There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power.

Hard to believe in german, but obviously true.

My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT

Horst
___________________________________________________________
NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen!
http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ <http://produkte.web.de/go/02/> =20


------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB3B6.8EEC21A0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">


<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3660" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=516184511-22022010><FONT face=Arial   color=#0000ff size=2>Hi Rik</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=516184511-22022010><FONT face=Arial   color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=516184511-22022010><FONT face=Arial   color=#0000ff size=2>In a french book called "Poste 85" describing the beginning 
of the electronics era during WW1 (telephone, radio, gonio, etc) , it is said 
that it was possible to listen to enemy telephone conversations by putting some 
rods in the ground and connecting them to a 3 triodes amplifier (the return 
audio ground current of the wire telephones were strong enough to allow 
conversations spying)&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=516184511-22022010><FONT face=Arial   color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=516184511-22022010><FONT face=Arial   color=#0000ff size=2>Jean-Louis F6AGR</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr   style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=fr dir=ltr align=left>
  <HR tabIndex=-1>
  <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org 
  [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Rik 
  Strobbe<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 22, 2010 12:21 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 
  rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 
  8.79 kHz in QRSS<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>Hello Stefan,<BR><BR>what about "going underground".<BR>I do remind 
  an article on communication via some kind of ground antennas in the WW1 (or 
  WW2 ?) trenches (I guess it wasn't very convenient to put up antennas within 
  the sight of the enemy).<BR>If I recall it right quite low frequencies were 
  used.<BR>Googling on "ground antenna war" resulted in this : <A     href="http://www.rexresearch.com/rogers/1rogers.htm">http://www.rexresearch.com/rogers/1rogers.htm</A> 
  <BR><BR>73, Rik&nbsp; ON7YD - OR7T<BR><BR>At 10:32 22/02/2010, you wrote:<BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite"><FONT size=2>Hello Horst, 
    <BR></FONT>&nbsp;<BR><FONT size=2>That sounds really nice. If it would be 
    easy to find some motivated OMs in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be 
    an interesting field to test.</FONT><BR>&nbsp;<BR><FONT size=2>Yesterday i 
    have thought about possible antenna configurations for that range and got 
    the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna tower. There, you could 
    hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in parallel. You do not need to 
    have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the wire and nobody will 
    care about it.<BR></FONT>Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna 
    mounted in some trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and 
    also 160m. The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect 
    matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 
    2200m without a problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one 
    would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX would be 
    interesting...<BR>&nbsp;<BR>JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a 
    little far i think ;-)<BR>&nbsp;<BR>What is your RX antenna and have you 
    already catched some commercial VLF stations in that range? Are there 
    some?<BR>&nbsp;<BR>73, Stefan<BR>&nbsp;<BR>PS: One can be sure that there 
    will never be SSB operation ;-)<BR><BR>
    <HR>
    <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>Von:</B> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im 
    Auftrag von Horst Stöcker<BR><B>Gesendet:</B> Mo 22.02.2010 
    09:29<BR><B>An:</B> rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<BR><B>Betreff:</B> RE: LF: 
    AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS<BR></FONT><BR><FONT size=2>Hallo 
    Stefan,<BR><BR>there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL 
    the range &lt;9kHz is free.<BR><BR>I could not believe that so I asked the 
    BNetzA and after a while I got a letter which confirmed that.<BR><BR>So 
    there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not need 
    one.<BR><BR>There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or 
    power.<BR><BR>Hard to believe in german, but obviously true.<BR><BR>My QTH 
    is Siegburg 
    JO30OT<BR><BR>Horst<BR>___________________________________________________________<BR>NEU: 
    Mit WEB.DE DSL über 1000,- ¿ sparen!<BR><A       href="http://produkte.web.de/go/02/">http://produkte.web.de/go/02/</A> 
    <BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB3B6.8EEC21A0--