Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.143]) by air-mb05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB051-a3834b87e9f02ad; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:34:08 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BCDE838000117; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:34:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl2BT-0006Gh-Cz for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:32:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl2BS-0006GY-Qy for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:32:54 +0000 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl2BQ-0006bT-6P for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:32:54 +0000 Received: from smtps02.kuleuven.be (smtpshost02.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.75]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DD2651C00B for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:32:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N4.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n4.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.14]) by smtps02.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F759F3863 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:32:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N4.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.14]) with mapi; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:32:39 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:32:39 +0100 Thread-Topic: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Thread-Index: Acq29RSPbJohoLCLRqeAbxsDFY2+twAAvco9 Message-ID: References: <9afca2641002221442s72f18373t26847ca0487ac2b1@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002230232k3af949e6kcd2fe2a53b11d822@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002250919y7bdb25ebq8b913bb7d210e488@mail.gmail.com> <57a24ca71002251331m10d45acfo2284f6cfe89f5607@mail.gmail.com> <61C255CA083040EDA5A011C0B0572524@AGB>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4074ICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408f4b87e9ea6a3d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4074ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If Ofcom wants to (or must) regulate "transmissions" below 9kHz they must= have a lower limit of whant they consider radiation. Otherwise one wouild= need a NoV to connect an audio amplifier to a loudspeaker via a cable. Un= less the the matching is perfect the cable will radiate some nannowatts or= picowatts. With amateur means (antenna's , power) we won't radiate much more than a= few milliwatts. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com] Verzonden: vrijdag 26 februari 2010 15:59 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below= 9kHz? Yes, unbelievable isn't it! Been going gon for abt 4 weeks now. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 26 February 2010 13:46, Graham > wrote: Warren , If you think this is bad, you should take a look at the 'ROS' discussi= on's in the yahoo digital data group .. SS paranoia has taken hold ! G .. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Warren Ziegler" > Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM To: > Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz? Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for nothing.... -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski > wrote: On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. [...] They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required as there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act 2006. [...] there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one contine= nt can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the rad= io authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field strengths (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection authority and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usual= ly 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to ask at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you will need a license for that" clause. if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you would probably get an entirely different answer :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4074ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If Ofc= om wants to (or must) regulate "transmissions" below 9kHz= they must have a lower limit of whant they consider radiation. Otherwise= one wouild need a NoV to connect an audio amplifier to a loudspeaker via a cable. Unless the the matching is perfect the cable will radiate so= me nannowatts or picowatts.
With amateur means (ante= nna's , power) we won't radiate much more than a few milliwatts.
 
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR= 7T
 
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@= googlemail.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 26 februari 2010 15:59
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation= below 9kHz?

Yes, unbelievable isn't it!
Been going gon for abt 4 weeks now.
On 26 February 2010 13:46, Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.u= k> wrote:
Warren ,

If you  think this is bad, you  should take a  look at the=  'ROS' discussion's in the yahoo   digital data group ..  = SS  paranoia has taken hold !

G ..

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Warren Ziegler" <w= d2xgj@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep.org>
Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz?


Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not
extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for
nothing....

--
73 Warren K2ORS
              WD2XGJ
              WD2XSH/23
              WE2XEB/2
              WE2XGR/1


On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski <sq5bpf@lipkowski.org> wrote:
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote:

People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received=
today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be.

[...]

They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required as=
there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act=
2006. [...]

there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one contine= nt
can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the rad= io
authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field strengths=
(and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection authority<= br> and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usual= ly
50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :)

sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to ask=
at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you= will
need a license for that" clause.

if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential
electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or<= br> any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you<= br> would probably get an entirely different answer :)

VY 73

Jacek / SQ5BPF

ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice






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