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Message-ID: <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:10:10 +0000 (GMT)
From: ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
In-Reply-To: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
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Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
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Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to=
 contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time=
 maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remembe=
r was:-
Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but we=
 control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be=
 issuing any licences for that region.

I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be different=
 now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be wor=
thwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through.

Alan G3NYK

--- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.=
de> wrote:

> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32
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> Ok Roger,=20
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> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in
> europe as
> well? What about the UK?
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> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build
> a big
> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the
> wire high above
> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do
> you mean with
> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround
> 500W+-6dB. But
> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna
> in the
> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about
> 2x500m in a
> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a
> ferrite
> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That
> could be
> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials,
> just 2 wires
> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the
> feed point,
> that would be a first step.=20
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> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF
> it is the
> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and
> make some
> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much
> easier on
> 40/80m...
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> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole,
> the
> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-)
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> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well?
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> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i
> expect. But
> that are dreams...
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> Stefan/DK7FC
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> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn:
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>   At this frequency, widely spaced,=A0grounded
> electrode pairs are
> probably the best "antenna".=A0 There are
> references to how these work in
> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the
> 1960s,
> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the
> German ham sites
> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0.
>   =A0
>   Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair
> aim with modern
> signal processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur
> levels) available
> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to
> submarines at
> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas
> stretching for
> 100s of kms.
>   =A0
>   73s
>   Roger G3XBM
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> =A0
>   2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer
> <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>
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>   Hello Horst,
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> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some
> motivated OMs
> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting
> field to
> test.
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> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna
> configurations for that
> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an
> antenna
> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in
> series and in
> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your
> house. Nobody
> will see the wire and nobody will care about it.
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> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted
> in some
> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and
> also 160m.
> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground.
> Perfect
> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even
> tried
> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX
> results, of
> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX
> would be
> interesting...
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> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i
> think ;-)
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> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some
> commercial
> VLF stations in that range? Are there some?
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> 73, Stefan
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> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation
> ;-)
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> ________________________________
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> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker
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> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29
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>     An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
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> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS
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> Hallo Stefan,
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> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in
> DL the range
> <9kHz is free.
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> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a
> while I got
> a letter which confirmed that.
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> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a
> licence. You do not
> need one.
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> There is no limitation of technical parameters like
> bandwith or power.
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> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true.
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> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT
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> Horst
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> ___________________________________________________________
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> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen!
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>     http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
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> --=20
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>   http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
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>   http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
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>   http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
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> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL
> G11088
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> --=20
> ----------------------------
> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer
> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t
> Heidelberg
> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229
> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany
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> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de
> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387
> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405
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> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de
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