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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:12:24 +0100
Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
Thread-Index: Acqz3B2XQhA+qwXMQhis8g8ptGhQPwAKsdaF
References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1002221130460.3606@paranoid.lipkowski.org>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB40C.1C5D5762"
Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org


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Jacek and group,=20
=20
That are really interesting responses here. That's what i like in this gro=
up!
=20
Well, perhaps it is not necessary to reach a "DX", DX becomes very relativ=
e in that frequency range. 50km sounds like a really good DX here.=20
=20
But what about that WSPR mode, everyone was using before some weeks? Would=
n't that be a nice tool to try what's possible, for a first step?
=20
If 750m is possible with 2W TX power and 4m*14m loop then it should be pos=
sible to reach some km with a grounded dipole of abt 2x500m. And if the en=
ds are grounded, the impedance will decrease. Bandwidth will increase due=
 to the resistive end loading and the voltage over the coils will decrease=
. That will depend by the end capacity and conductivity, of course. Someth=
ing like a vertical loop with the second half as the earth. Maybe, if the=
 formula RA9MB showed is correct, it would be better not to place it on th=
e ground but hung it up on some trees. Sure, everything in the near will=
 be lossy but that's the case at each commercial VLF transmitter as well.=
 The losses are simply a part of the job.=20
=20
Important is the achieved fascination, isn't it? What would you feel if yo=
u would get a contact in QRSS10 to your next VLF interested neighbour, say=
 in 20km? I expect the biggest problem on VLF is to find a person who is=
 fascinated in the same manner than one self ;-) I do not know someone in=
 a radius of 50km who is interested :-( But i will discuss it in our club.=
..
=20
BTW, why exactly choosing 8,79 kHz (Horst?)?, why not 8,9 kHz?
=20
We all have a great hobby, really!
=20
73, Stefan/DK7FC
=20

________________________________

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Jacek Lipkowski
Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 17:25
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: LF: Re: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS



I've done some tests on VLF also, like many others on this group.

For antennas i've used a 1.5m x 2.5m 3-turn loop, a 4mx14m 1-turn loop,
and coupling to external structures (i won't disscuss this bit here :).

Using the third antenna i can receive my vlf beacon abt 750m from here.
The power was abt. 2W from a TDA2030:
http://acid.ch.pw.edu.pl/~sq5bpf/ham/vlf/20100203/vlfcapt3747.jpg

The receiving antenna was a 100turn loop in a hula-hop toy with a dia. of
90cm. This loop was tuned to resonance and amplified.

Using the 4x14m loop and abt. 40w from a TDA1562 i can receive it from
930m:

http://acid.ch.pw.edu.pl/~sq5bpf/ham/vlf/capt0706082213.jpg

The receiving antenna was a 50turn loop in a hula-hop toy with a dia. of
80cm. This loop was connected to the amplifier virtual ground (broadband
design like "easyloop").

If i remember correctly i could receive 40W into the 1.5x2.5m 3-turn loop
at about 500m.

Unfortunately i haven't had an opportunity to play with e-field antennas,
which should be much more efficient. I've noted that for b-field antennas
nearby installations (power lines, phone lines etc) can carry the vlf
signal far away (hint :)

VY 73

Jacek / SQ5BPF




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