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Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 00:50:00 +0100
Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Thread-Topic: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF862
Thread-Index: AcqjaNK1L2/hHZzzQ2STNL88qEl0ogA9pDMi
References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
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	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA462.6EB21565"
Subject: AW: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF862
Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
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Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org


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Hey Ken,=20
=20
Tnx for your statement. Well, i am not an expert in optic links and the pa=
rts i choose are probably not the best, that are available for this applic=
ation.=20
=20
Theese parts were available for me and they are suitable in principle, alt=
hough the attenuation may be some dB less. Today i measured the gain of a=
 single BF862 in a preamp application for LF and i calculated a voltage ga=
in of 26dB. Well, in that case it is not so important for me if the cable=
 has 3dB loss or 0,03dB loss. The main aspect is, that the local noise is=
 decoupled. Because if it is not decoupled, the SNR can quickly decrease=
 by more than 20dB, as i saw. And 3dB losses are not 3dB less SNR.
=20
Perhaps the transmission system can be improved by using special parts. Bu=
t are they available for everyone (private, not commercial customers) and=
 are they in a range below 5EUR? Perhaps you can tell me/us a more suitabl=
e type of cable that is perhaps even cheeper?=20
The parts i use in the moment have no special mounting. The fiber optic ca=
ble is just cut with a gripper and stuck plugged in the housing of the LED=
, thats all. And it can be done many times, thats important...
=20
So, do you have an idea of better parts that are cheep and available, with=
 variable length of the cable, so not preassembled? :-)
=20
73, Stefan/DK7FC

________________________________

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Ken
Gesendet: Mo 01.02.2010 18:56
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF8=
62



Hi Stefan.
150dB/km, is a very high loss for modern fibre, even thhe early 850nm
multimode fibre was only 1 or 2dB /km and modern single mode fibre at 1300=
nm
or 1550nm the attenuation is substantially  less than 1dB/km. What optical
wavelength is the data sheet quoting this attenuation figure at? If you ar=
e
using a red LED into a single mode fibre then the attenuation will be high=
,
the launch power will also depend on how the  LED is coupled into the fibr=
e,
ideally the LED should be mounted in mating coupler so the so the fibre ma=
y
be mated up to it, air gaps of fractions of a millimeter will introduce
attenuation. The same applies when you mount your receive photodiode. In=
 the
1980's and 90,s I spent many years both specifying and commissioning optic=
al
line sysyems in the UK. I hope this info will be of use to you.

73s.
Ken
M0KHW



----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 10:43 PM
Subject: AW: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF8=
62


Hello Chris,

I am not a communication engineer (but a power electronic engineer ;-) ),=
 so
rather an amateur in this field. So my answer is kept simple ;-)

In the datasheet of this cable i just found that attenuation is less than
150dB/km, so abt 3dB for my 20m cable. I have tried a cable of 2m (for
indoor tests) and changed the cable to 20m. The difference (e.g. of DCF39=
 in
the Argo monitor) is less than one S unit.

In the moment i use a SFH350V (photo transistor)as the receiver. But
recently i read in the web that a photodiode has (significant) less noise.
So i want to try a SFH250V in a next step to reduce the overall noise,
probably in combination with a second BF862 in the input stage of the RX.
The SFH250V has even much better switching times. I have already ordered
some of those. I will try this and send the circuit here...

The cable i use has a PE shielding which is not suitable to exist 10s of
years in the summer sun. But the distributor told me, it will be no proble=
m
for some years. And since LF is a living project, this is enough for me.

The losses of the cable must be compensated by a gain of an amplifier with=
in
the system. This gain is not reached without a noise (e.g. by a OPA) but
this noise can be much smaller than the noise that you fed into a sensitiv=
e
RX antenna, i expect. But the main aspect is, that one doesn't have to wor=
ry
any more if it could be possible that a noise is fed from the PC/RX/house=
 to
the preamp by the cable.

73s, Stefan/DK7FC



________________________________

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Chris Trask
Gesendet: So 31.01.2010 14:57
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF8=
62



>
> Some OMs informed me, that the picture of the loop preamp is
> in a strange design. That may be come, since i (have to) use
> outlook exchange (?)
>
> Now i try to do it again. Those who asked for the picture,
> please give my a short confirmation if the picture is in the
> correct format now.
>
> I do some modifications to the RX in the moment and will send
> the new and perhaps better circuit soon. But the setup is
> already working vy fine!
>

     That is a very interesting approach to minimizing induced noise on th=
e
RX cable.  What are the loss characteristics of the optical link, includin=
g
the diode(s)?


Chris Trask
N7ZWY
WDX3HLB
Senior Member IEEE
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask/








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