Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.79]) by air-dc08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC083-86544b82697b139; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:24:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 089F33800010F; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:24:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjWNf-0000UH-62 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:23:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjWNe-0000U8-Lv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:23:14 +0000 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjWNc-0000WY-8B for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:23:14 +0000 Received: from smtps02.kuleuven.be (smtpshost02.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.75]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 356B551C002 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:23:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from PC_van_Rik.fys.kuleuven.be (dhcp-10-33-85-106.fys.kuleuven.be [10.33.85.106]) by smtps02.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8324F3862 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:23:01 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:20:37 +0100 To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100222112301.D8324F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_10_20=0.945,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_8201175==.ALT" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604f4b826979683d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --=====================_8201175==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Stefan, what about "going underground". I do remind an article on communication via some=20 kind of ground antennas in the WW1 (or WW2 ?)=20 trenches (I guess it wasn't very convenient to=20 put up antennas within the sight of the enemy). If I recall it right quite low frequencies were used. Googling on "ground antenna war" resulted in this=20 :=20 http://www.rexresearch.com/= rogers/1rogers.htm=20 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T At 10:32 22/02/2010, you wrote: >Hello Horst, > >That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to=20 >find some motivated OMs in the near field (31km)=20 >;-), that would be an interesting field to test. > >Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna=20 >configurations for that range and got the idea=20 >that one could use a forrest as an antenna=20 >tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of=20 >wire, in series and in parallel. You do not need=20 >to have that area beside your house. Nobody will=20 >see the wire and nobody will care about it. >Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop=20 >antenna mounted in some trees on my hill with=20 >excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m.=20 >The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above=20 >ground. Perfect matching from 160m to 10m with=20 >my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on=20 >2200m without a problem but with bad ODX=20 >results, of course. But if one would try 2x=20 >10*100m on VLF, the ODX would be interesting... > >JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-) > >What is your RX antenna and have you already=20 >catched some commercial VLF stations in that range? Are there some? > >73, Stefan > >PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-) > > >---------- >Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS > >Hallo Stefan, > >there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S.=20 >1287, that in DL the range <9kHz is free. > >I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA=20 >and after a while I got a letter which confirmed that. > >So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not need= one. > >There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power. > >Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. > >My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT > >Horst >___________________________________________________________ >NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ --=====================_8201175==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Stefan,

what about "going underground".
I do remind an article on communication via some kind of ground antennas in the WW1 (or WW2 ?) trenches (I guess it wasn't very convenient to put up antennas within the sight of the enemy).
If I recall it right quite low frequencies were used.
Googling on "ground antenna war" resulted in this : http://www.rexresearch.com/rogers/1rogers.htm

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T

At 10:32 22/02/2010, you wrote:
Hello Horst,=
 
That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some motivated OMs in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting field to test.
 
Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for that range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the wire and nobody will care about it.
Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m. The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX would be interesting...
 
JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-)
 
What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some commercial VLF stations in that range? Are there some?
 
73, Stefan
 
PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-)

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker
Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS

Hallo Stefan,

there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the range <9kHz is free.

I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got a letter which confirmed that.

So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not need one.

There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power.

Hard to believe in german, but obviously true.

My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT

Horst
___________________________________________________________
NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen!
http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
--=====================_8201175==.ALT--