Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.92]) by air-mb03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB031-a2144b88effd2f0; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 05:12:13 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C5A4A380000AA; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 05:12:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlJdc-0006PK-5r for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:11:08 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlJdb-0006PB-Hq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:11:07 +0000 Received: from out1.ip02ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.238]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlJdZ-0003rY-Cs for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:11:07 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgcFAPt+iEtOkzcC/2dsb2JhbACNGAOCHItkc7o/hHsE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,549,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="315657402" Received: from unknown (HELO your91hoehfy9g) ([78.147.55.2]) by out1.ip02ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 27 Feb 2010 10:10:42 +0000 Message-ID: <001701cab795$1f876ee0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <815590.4347.qm@web28107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <57a24ca71002261728s1be02142h83d7b0d8931e540@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:10:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01CAB795.1F2CF2D0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605c4b88effb367d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01CAB795.1F2CF2D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable VLF dreamers =20 At the distance predicted for communications all that is required is= to just SHOUT at each other or perhaps a WHISPER would do if you have= symetrical EARS. or even FLAG waving from high ground !! Electrical/Mechanical aids are only necessary above say 20 KCS de Mal/G3KEV ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Warren Ziegler=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 1:28 AM Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation be= low 9kHz? Hi Pete, Yes I guess I engaged in a bit of hyperbole when I suggest= ed that 9kHz won't cross the garden wall, but not by much. If you reckon that the world record is 10km for an amateur and that= was to receive a very faint ARGO trace then for a signal to be audibl= e it must be considerably closer. =20 You comment on politics reminds of the old joke:=20 Q. Do you know the difference between capitalism and communism? A. In capitalism its dog eat dog; in communism its the other way 'r= ound ! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ=20 WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 =20 On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:46 PM, M0FMT wrote: Hi Warren Well I can tell you right now that the garden wall is no= t the limit by any means unless you live on John Wayne's Ranch. Your New President is trying to create jobs over there?= He wants to take a leaf out of our book we've been doing it for years= ... joking aside....... I am not expecting DX but to have a communicat= ion path that covers the local LF Amateur community on VLF would be ra= ther Cool I think. From there it may be a long road that I for one may= not travel but at the moment there is enough enthusiasm locally to tr= y out a few ideas many have come from this debate on the LF reflector.= The near field signal is quite readable at about 1/2 km from a very= low power TX using a whip on RX during a quick wiz up the road in the= car. Must key this thing my ears are ringing with this continuous bea= t note running all the time. 73 es GL petefmt -------------------------------------------------- From: "Warren Ziegler" Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM To: Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio= Operation below 9kHz? Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal= that will not extend past your own garden seems like a lot of troubl= e for nothing.... --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski wrote: On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wil= kinson at OFCOM received today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. [...] They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there= is no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a lice= nce would be required as there is no lower frequency limit for wireless tel= egraphy under the WT Act 2006. [...] there is already a very big commercial user of the= elf and vlf spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emis= sions from one continent can be heard on another. and they do this without an= y license from the radio authorities. the only regulation they need regards= maximum field strengths (and this is usually the realm of some environmental= protection authority and not the radio authority). the operating frequenc= y varies, but is usually 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best= practice is not to ask at all :) even if they agree with you there will alw= ays be a "but you will need a license for that" clause. if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to= regulate potential electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations= operating on 50Hz (or any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is no= t ITU regulated). you would probably get an entirely different answer :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually= very nice =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01CAB795.1F2CF2D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
VLF dreamers   
At the distance predicted for communi= cations all=20 that is required is to just SHOUT at each other or perhaps a WHISPER= would do if=20 you have symetrical EARS.
or even FLAG waving from high ground= =20 !!
Electrical/Mechanical aids are only= necessary above=20 say 20 KCS
de Mal/G3KEV
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Warren= Ziegler=20
Sent: Saturday, February 27,= 2010 1:28=20 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special= Permits for=20 Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz?

Hi Pete,

          Yes I guess I engaged= in a bit of=20 hyperbole when I suggested that 9kHz won't cross the garden wall, bu= t not by=20 much.
If you reckon that the world record is 10km for an amateur and= that was=20 to receive a very faint ARGO trace then for a signal to be audible= it must be=20 considerably closer.
       
         You comment on politics remin= ds of the=20 old joke: 
Q.  Do you know the difference between capitalism and=20 communism?
A.  In capitalism its dog eat dog; in communism its the ot= her way=20 'round !

-- 
73 Warren K2ORS
        &nbs= p;  =20    WD2XGJ 
          &nbs= p;  =20  WD2XSH/23
             = =20  WE2XEB/2
             = =20  WE2XGR/1

  

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:46 PM, M0FMT <m0fmt@yah= oo.co.uk> wrote:

wd2xgj@gmail.com<= /A>>
Sent:=20 Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Subject:= Re:=20 LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation bel= ow=20 9kHz?


Asking=20 Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that= will=20 not
extend past your own garden seems like a lot of= trouble=20 for
nothing....

--
73 Warren K2ORS
&n= bsp;=20             WD2XGJ
&n= bsp;=20             WD2XSH/23 =20             WE2XEB/2
=  =20             WE2XGR/1
=

On=20 Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski <sq5bpf@lipkowski.org>=20 wrote:
On=20 Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote:

People=20 may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson= at OFCOM=20 received
today. I asked him what OFCOM's view= would=20 be.

[...]

They=20 state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is= no=20 allocation for
frequencies below 9 kHz. However= in the=20 UK, a licence would be required as
there is no= lower=20 frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the= WT=20 Act
2006. [...]

there is al= ready a very=20 big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum,
= they=20 inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions= from one=20 continent
can be heard on another. and they do th= is without=20 any license from the radio
authorities. the only= regulation=20 they need regards maximum field strengths
(and th= is is=20 usually the realm of some environmental protection= =20 authority
and not the radio authority). the opera= ting=20 frequency varies, but is usually
50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6= Hz etc=20 :)

sometimes when dealing with the goverment,= the best=20 practice is not to ask
at all :) even if they agr= ee with=20 you there will always be a "but you will
need a= license for=20 that" clause.

if you have to ask, ask them if= it is=20 their duty to regulate potential
electromagnetic= wave=20 transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or=
any=20 other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not IT= U=20 regulated). you
would probably get an entirely di= fferent=20 answer :)

VY 73

Jacek / SQ5BPF

= ps. the=20 answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very=20 nice





=







<= BR>
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