Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.221]) by air-mg07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMG072-8c364b40dcd2326; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 13:07:15 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D83913800855B; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 12:58:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NRUfs-0003JZ-3B for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 17:55:32 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NRUfr-0003JQ-8k for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 17:55:31 +0000 Received: from mail-fx0-f211.google.com ([209.85.220.211]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NRUfe-0005HC-FF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 17:55:31 +0000 Received: by fxm3 with SMTP id 3so5464939fxm.4 for ; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 09:55:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=nql4JozLRuE/Ho6zy/R4fGC+eCGUfOnvjgd2dYLZZkA=; b=YrGg1D0o6hE7zzqI3AhFzGj16fMqCRMQBBZqLjZ/g67SVrDdR2FbWdYgCuqrIePue0 bX9iBVpJ0l6sJntd6qry6NYLwqU0QNMma+hKikf/s1UVcqze4gB3747LOC0EvBEgoIC4 /FFneA44bPtCno529ZihXgrIVv5qI2QWjLMS0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=VWrYOWBcSm2G9zwi7aqX773FL6zSe80uRSF1lG+DTVO73j6oKvs6XtfmE7hUN4LXze 8J8TUK4Dwu2vLOf/l94cXSI0zIGfXZBF04RimqlSGBahTvzZSlG1MflrWvMT62lyQlZC FDvdtkUrq0ZxbPD5mDXH1UONOQnIYCr26trYk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.239.140.197 with SMTP id y5mr157209hby.105.1262541304616; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 09:55:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <145732.24469.qm@web28101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <20100103181609.ivn5yo6dmosk444k@webmail6.kuleuven.be> <145732.24469.qm@web28101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 17:55:04 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Karma: unknown: DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Re: LF: Anti Social ssb Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f6299af9d780047c464dc8 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40dd4b40dac1108c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --001485f6299af9d780047c464dc8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 For the narrow range of frequencies needed for WSPR, a 90 degree phase shift network at audio *need* consist of no more than a pair of CR's; although a pair of op-amp allpass networks does a better job. Direct conversion from baseband to 137 or 500kHz by phase shifting teh audio, then followed by a Soft-rock style QSD in reverse. * http://www.g4jnt.com/LFUpconv.pdf* It would be simpler still if Joe could be persuaded to provide I/Q outputs from the soundcard. May be slightly more complicated than a mixer from RF, but does mean you don't need to tie up the SSB rig transmitting all that HF output, only to lose it all again in an attenuator (assuming no low level output, of course) Andy 2010/1/3 M0FMT > OK Rik > > May be your way is simpler. I was thinking along the lines of an existing > SSB rig in most but not all shacks existing free software - 3 x 2n2222 > devices a mixer chip an xtal and may be a fet pa like what G3XBM has > proposed. > > Phase shifting a carrier which in the software is done at audio in old Joe > whats his names software can be done at RF cariier frequency granted .... > but is it over all simpler than a transverter method described above? > > Having built your 500kc/s transverter all other free to down load diggi > modes are then possible (Goord 'elp us) even dare I say CW ........ oh thats > not PC on this reflector forgot..... slapped wrists. > > 73 HNY petefmt > > > > ** > > > From: Rik Strobbe > > Subject: Re: LF: Anti Social ssb > To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" > Date: Sunday, 3 January, 2010, 17:16 > > > Pete, > > There is no need for linear amplification with WSPR, so things can be kept > simple. > Another way to get a 500kHz WSPR signal is to generate WSPR with the tones > 14.6Hz separated at 5MHz and then divide by 10. > As Andy states the WSPR protocol is public (and pretty straightforward), so > writing the appropriate software shouldn'd be to hard. > > 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T > > Quoting M0FMT > >: > > > Probably simpler to to make up a transverter - mixer with a xtal > controlled oscillator and a few stages of linear amplification driving the > mixer with an SSB rig. The whole thing about WSPR is the Low power aspect > so no QRO linears required if you play the game. Then use the readily > available Software that can be down loaded for free.... no brain surgery > required. > > > > 73 es GL petefmt > > > > --- On Sun, 3/1/10, Andy Talbot > > wrote: > > > > From: Andy Talbot > > > > Subject: Re: LF: Anti Social ssb > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > Date: Sunday, 3 January, 2010, 15:59 > > > > There is a way... > > > > If you can arrange an oscillator so that it can be pulled onto the > > four WSPR tone frequencies (separated by 1.46Hz ) by two logic lines. > > This could be as simple as two resistors, one twice the value of the > > other, giving a 2-bit D/A converter, controlling a varicap on the > > oscillator. > > > > Then a PIC keyer can generate the logic level drive. > > See www.g4jnt.com/WSPRBCNS.ZIP for details of generating teh WSPR > > message and the PIC code > > > > The design in there uses a GPS receiver to get accurate timing, but > > with some trivial PIC code changes it could be made to work in a > > standalone manually trigerred mode. > > > > Perhaps there's a demand here... > > > > WSPR encoding on the fly is easy enough in a PC > > http://www.g4jnt.com/wspr_coding_process.pdf > > A prog could be written to output the two-bit data via a USB/Serial > > port and PIC based dongle... > > > > Andy > > www.g4jnt.com > > > > > > > > Andy > > www.g4jnt.com > > > > This email has been scanned for damaging side-effects by the health > > and safety police, is guaranteed to contain no substances hazardous to > > health, but may contribute to dissolving the nether and polar regions > > > > > > > > 2010/1/3 Graham > >: > >> Roger > >> > >> ''' More people should use WSPR - ''' > >> > >> That's not as easy as it sounds , wspr needs a liner audio to rf > >> carrier frequency conversion, ...fine if you have a conventional > >> transverter , mf exciter or ham set that works down to 500/137 ...No > good > >> if you have dividing logic in the amplifier drive train , vfo > controlled > >> or PIC based without the 'ability' to run a wspr generating code > set .. > >> Its a good point worth making though ... > >> > >> G.. > >> From: Roger Lapthorn > >> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 10:20 PM > >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > > >> Subject: Re: LF: Anti Social ssb > >> Mal, > >> > >> Some suggestions: > >> > >> More people should use WSPR - lots of stations (more than 100 at a time > >> based on 10MHz usage) are able to operate together within just a 200Hz > slice > >> of the band allowing very useful data on propagation and station > >> performance/changes to be determined. This would leave plenty of room > >> elsewhere in the band for CW and other narrowband conversational modes. > >> Occasional testing with SSB, for those allowed to use it (not UK), is of > >> interest to me as a listener, but I agree that it's not a good idea to > use > >> this mode when the band is open for really long-distance DX if > interference > >> to weak signals is likely. > >> You should try a New Year resolution: "I will be more tolerant and moan > >> less". > >> > >> 73s and a happy New Year to all on this reflector > >> > >> Roger G3XBM > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> 2010/1/2 mal hamilton > > > >>> > >>> I am afraid we have a SSB beacon on 508 kcs spreading over 3 kcs wide > and > >>> S9 plus with me. Beacon SM6BHZ is causing QRM to those of us trying to > >>> listen and work the East Coast USA stations. I cannot understand why a > >>> station is licensed to work SSB in such a narrow band allocation. > >>> The 500 kcs band is a Shambles swamped by beacons. > >>> Does anyone else have an opinion? > >>> G3KEV > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> ------------------------------------------------------------- > >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > >> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --001485f6299af9d780047c464dc8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
For the narrow range of frequencies needed for WSPR, a 90 degree phas= e shift network at audio need consist of no more than a pair of= CR's; although a pair of op-amp allpass networks=A0does a=A0better jo= b.
=A0
Direct conversion from baseband to 137 or 500kHz=A0by phase shifting= teh audio, then=A0followed by a Soft-rock style QSD in reverse.=A0 http://= www.g4jnt.com/LFUpconv.pdf
It would be simpler still if Joe could be persuaded to provide I/Q ou= tputs from the soundcard.
=A0
May be slightly more complicated than a mixer from RF, but does mean= you don't need to tie up the SSB rig transmitting all that HF output,= only to lose it all again in an attenuator (assuming no low level output,= of course)

Andy
2010/1/3 M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk>
OK Rik
=A0
May be your way is simpler. I was thinking along the lines of an exis= ting SSB rig in most but not all shacks existing free=A0software - 3 x 2n2= 222 devices a mixer chip an xtal and may be a fet pa like what G3XBM has= proposed.
=A0
Phase shifting a carrier which in the software is done at audio in ol= d Joe whats his names software can be done at RF cariier frequency granted= .... but is it over all simpler than a transverter method described above= ?
=A0
Having built your 500kc/s transverter all other=A0free to down load= diggi modes are then possible (Goord 'elp us) even dare I say CW ....= .... oh thats not PC on this reflector forgot..... =A0slapped wrists.
=A0
73 HNY petefmt





From: Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be&g= t;=20

Subject: Re: LF: Anti Social ssb
To: "= rsgb_lf_= group@blacksheep.org" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Date: Sunday, 3 January, 2010, 17:16=20


Pete,

There is no need for linear amplification with WSPR, so= things can be kept simple.
Another way to get a 500kHz WSPR signal is= to generate WSPR with the tones 14.6Hz separated at 5MHz and then divide= by 10.
As Andy states the WSPR protocol is public (and pretty straightforward),= so writing the appropriate software shouldn'd be to hard.

73,= Rik=A0 ON7YD - OR7T

Quoting M0FMT <m0fmt@y= ahoo.co.uk>:

> Probably simpler to to make up a transverter - mixer with a xtal= =A0 controlled oscillator and a few stages of linear amplification=A0 driv= ing the mixer with an SSB rig. The whole thing about WSPR is the=A0 Low po= wer aspect so no QRO linears required if you play the game.=A0 Then use th= e readily available Software that can be down loaded for=A0 free.... no br= ain surgery required.
>
> 73 es GL petefmt
>
> --- On Sun, 3/1/10, Andy= Talbot <andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com>= wrote:
>
> From: Andy Talbot <andy.g4jn= t@googlemail.com>
> Subject: Re: LF: Anti Social ssb
>= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> Date: Sunday, 3 January, 2010, 15:59
>
> There is a way.= ..
>
> If you can arrange an oscillator so that it can be pul= led onto the
> four WSPR tone frequencies (separated by 1.46Hz ) by= two logic lines.
> This could be as simple as two resistors, one twice the value of the<= br>> other, giving a 2-bit D/A converter, controlling a varicap on the<= br>> oscillator.
>
> Then a PIC keyer can generate the log= ic level drive.
> See=A0 =A0 www.g4jnt.com/WSPRBCNS.ZIP=A0=A0=A0for details of generating teh= WSPR
> message and the PIC code
>
> The design in ther= e uses a GPS receiver to get accurate timing, but
> with some trivial PIC code changes it could be made to work in a
&= gt; standalone manually trigerred mode.
>
> Perhaps there'= ;s a demand here...
>
> WSPR encoding on the fly is easy enou= gh in a PC
> http://www.g4jnt.com/wspr_coding_process.pdf
> A prog coul= d be written to output the two-bit data via a USB/Serial
> port and= PIC based dongle...
>
> Andy
> www.g4jnt.com
>
>
>
> Andy
> www.g4jnt.com
>= ;
> This email has been scanned for damaging side-effects by the he= alth
> and safety police, is guaranteed to contain no substances hazardous= to
> health, but may contribute to dissolving the nether and polar= regions
>
>
>
> 2010/1/3 Graham=A0 <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk<http://uk.mc281.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dg8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk= >>:
>> Roger
>>
>> '''=A0 More people sho= uld use WSPR - '''
>>
>> That's not as= =A0 easy as=A0 it=A0 sounds , wspr=A0 needs=A0 a=A0 liner audio to=A0 rf>> carrier frequency=A0 conversion,=A0 ...fine=A0 if you have a=A0= conventional
>> transverter , mf exciter or ham set that works down to=A0 500/137= ...No good
>> if you=A0 have dividing logic in the amplifier=A0= drive train , vfo=A0 controlled
>> or PIC based without the=A0= 'ability'=A0 to=A0 run a wspr=A0 generating=A0 code set ..
>> Its a=A0 good=A0 point worth making though ...
>>
&g= t;> G..
>> From: Roger Lapthorn
>> Sent: Saturday, Ja= nuary 02, 2010 10:20 PM
>> To:=A0 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<http:= //uk.mc281.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Drsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= >
>> Subject: Re: LF: Anti Social ssb
>> Mal,
>> >> Some suggestions:
>>
>> More people should us= e WSPR - lots of stations (more than 100 at a time
>> based on 10= MHz usage) are able to operate together within just a 200Hz slice
>> of the band allowing very useful data on propagation and station<= br>>> performance/changes to be determined.=A0 This would leave plen= ty of room
>> elsewhere in the band for CW and other narrowband= conversational modes.
>> Occasional testing with SSB, for those allowed to use it (not UK)= , is of
>> interest to me as a listener, but I agree that it'= s not a good idea to use
>> this mode when the band is open for= really long-distance DX if interference
>> to weak signals is likely.
>> You should try a New Year= resolution: "I will be more tolerant and moan
>> less"= .
>>
>> 73s and a happy New Year to all on this reflect= or
>>
>> Roger G3XBM
>>
>>
>> >>
>> 2010/1/2 mal hamilton=A0 <g3kevmal@talktalk.net<http://uk.mc281.= mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dg3kevmal@talktalk.net>>
>>>
>>> I am afraid we have a SSB beacon on 508 kcs= spreading over 3 kcs wide and
>>> S9 plus with me. Beacon SM6= BHZ is causing QRM to those of us trying to
>>> listen and wor= k the East Coast USA stations. I cannot understand why a
>>> station is licensed to work SSB in such a narrow band allocat= ion.
>>> The 500 kcs band is a Shambles swamped by beacons.>>> Does anyone else have an opinion?
>>> G3KEV
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -------= ------------------------------------------------------
>> http://g3xbm-qrp.blo= gspot.com/
>> http://www.= g3xbm.co.uk<h= ttp://www.g3xbm.co.uk/>
>> G3XBM=A0 =A0 GQRP 1678=A0 =A0= =A0 ISWL G11088
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>



=

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