Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.80]) by air-df07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF074-5efd4b40d36846; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 12:27:04 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id CB9FE38004C5A; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 12:14:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NRU14-0002p0-Up for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 17:13:22 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NRU14-0002or-9s for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 17:13:22 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NRU12-0004y0-7b for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 17:13:22 +0000 Received: from LAPTOP (a83-163-2-28.adsl.xs4all.nl [83.163.2.28]) by smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id o03HD6kV037382; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 18:13:19 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from misan@xs4all.nl) Message-ID: <8B155F0217064CB693A2937746504A32@LAPTOP> From: "M. Sanders" To: Cc: "Ypma, S.H." , , , "Albert" References: <820322.89933.qm@web28107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 18:13:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Karma: unknown: X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Re: LF: PA0A on 500kHz / legal or piracy? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01CA8CA0.6C483D10" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.2 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60504b40d06b6e60 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01CA8CA0.6C483D10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To All LF, Please be informed some Radio Amateurs in PA have apparently received= permissions (via VRZA) to transmit 501-504kHz, as of Jan first 2010.= PA0A has informed me about this and I appologise for any possible mis= understandings caused by my previous email to the reflector. The Dutch= Telecom Authorities nor VRZA have publicised anything on their Intern= et sites until now and the VERON members (like myself) have not been= informed about anything yet. Congratulations to PA0A are in order for his acheivements! Best Regards / Best 73's Michael Sanders, PC4M. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: M0FMT=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 5:11 PM Subject: Re: LF: PA0A on 500kHz / legal or piracy? Hi LF I take it that PA0A is one of the non legal stations we've bee= n warned about (see below). He was CQing last night and no one called= him although there were several on the band. Not a good idea to give= Pirates a report not sure how it would affect our licence to use the= band? 73 es GL petefmt --- On Sat, 2/1/10, M. Sanders wrote: From: M. Sanders Subject: Re: LF: PA0A on 500kHz / legal or piracy? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: pa0shy@veron.nl Date: Saturday, 2 January, 2010, 1:13 To all LF, Please beware that the official Dutch Telecom Agency has not= yet published the issue of experimental licences for the 600m band to= t the Dutch Amateur Radio organisations VERON and / or VRZA. For those= able to understand Dutch language the most recent official publicatio= n is quoted below. However not all their memebers seem to have been ad= equately informed about the process. It is not even clear if notificat= ions to participate in the experiment by individual Radio Amateurs hav= e already been processed by the organisations. I am most sorry to inform all LF interested parties via this= reflector that the transmissions like the one recorded below and and= therfore QSO's with PA stations may still be regarded as an act of 'r= adio piracy' by the PA stations, transmitting on an frequency band wit= hout official permission. It looks like it is not 'legal' yet to QSO= with PA on 600m unit official publications have been issued by Dutch= Telecom Authorities and VERON and/or VRZA have informed indivual Radi= o Amateurs in writing about their participation to the experiments tra= nsmitting on 600m. I suppose a starting date somewhere in the future= will be in order, and not legalising transmissions 'after the fact'= as of 1-1-2010 0:00LET.=20 Dutch Amateurs have a rich history of 'illegal' first-QSO's,= starting in the 1920's with the first succesful trans Atlantic QSO's= from PA. The Radio Amateur, OM Jesse, was convicted of 'radio piracy'= but not fined and the Judge congratulated him and complimented him on= his innovative achievement. History sometimes has the tendency to rep= eat it self. Kind regards, Best 73's, Michael Sanders, PC4M QUOTE: >> Onderzoek naar toegang tot 500 KHz voor radiozendamateurs 23-12-2009=20 Tijdens het overleg met de belangenverenigingen voor radioze= ndamateurs VERON en VRZA op 7 oktober 2009 zijn afspraken gemaakt over= de toegang tot de 500 KHz band. De verenigingen zullen onderzoeken wa= t de effecten zijn van het uitzenden in deze frequentieband in relatie= tot de randvoorwaarden die voor de WRC 2012 zijn voorgesteld voor de= 500 KHz band. De resultaten van het onderzoek worden ingebracht bij= de nationale voorbereidingscommissie voor de WRC 2012 (NVC). De veren= igingen moeten hiervoor een rapport indienen bij Agentschap Telecom. Om het onderzoek te kunnen uitvoeren vragen de verenigingen= een collectieve experimenteervergunning aan bij Agentschap Telecom.= Over de inhoud van de aanvraag van de experimenteervergunning voeren= de verenigingen nog overleg met de co=F6rdinator voor amateurzaken.= De randvoorwaarden voor de aanvraag en de uitvoering van het experime= nt zijn inmiddels met de VRON en VRZA besproken.=20 Als vergunninghouder van de experimenteervergunning zijn de= verenigingen verantwoordelijk voor de uitvoering van het experiment.= Zij kunnen individuele radiozendamateurs informeren hoe zij in aanmer= king kunnen komen voor eventuele deelname aan dit experiment.=20 Individuele aanvragen voor een experimenteervergunning voor= de 500 kHz zullen door Agentschap Telecom niet worden gehonoreerd . Zodra de experimenteervergunningen zijn verleend, maken wij= dit bekend via deze website.=20 < I just worked PA0A on 502.5kHz with very good signals. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01CA8CA0.6C483D10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To All LF,
 
Please be informed some Radio Amateur= s in PA have=20 apparently received permissions (via VRZA) to transmit= =20 501-504kHz, as of Jan first 2010. PA0A has informed me about this and= I=20 appologise for any possible misunderstandings caused by my= previous=20 email to the reflector. The Dutch Telecom Authorities nor VRZA&nb= sp;have=20 publicised anything on their Internet sites until now and th= e VERON=20 members (like myself) have not been informed about anything yet.
 
Congratulations to PA0A are in order= for=20 his acheivements!
 
Best Regards / Best 73's
 
Michael Sanders, PC4M.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 M0FMT=
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 201= 0 5:11=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: PA0A on 500k= Hz / legal=20 or piracy?

Hi LF
 
I take it that PA0A is one of the non legal stations we'v= e been=20 warned about (see below). He was CQing last night and no one= called him=20 although there were several on the band. Not a good idea to gi= ve Pirates=20 a report not sure how it would affect our licence to use the= =20 band?

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Sat, 2/1/10, M.= Sanders=20 <misan@xs4all.nl&= gt;=20 wrote:

From:=20 M. Sanders <misan@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: LF: PA0A= on 500kHz=20 / legal or piracy?
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Cc= :=20 pa0shy@veron.nl
Date: Saturday, 2 January, 2010, 1:13
=
To all LF,
 
Please beware that the offi= cial Dutch=20 Telecom Agency has not yet published the issue of experiment= al=20 licences for the 600m band tot the Dutch Amateur Radio= =20 organisations VERON and / or VRZA. For those able= to=20 understand Dutch language the most recent official publicati= on is=20 quoted below. However not all their memebers= seem=20 to have been adequately informed about the pr= ocess. It=20 is not even clear if notifications to=20 participate in the experiment by individual Radio=20 Amateurs have already been processed by the=20 organisations.
 
I am most sorry to inform= all LF=20 interested parties via this reflector that the transmis= sions like=20 the one recorded below and and therfore QSO's= with PA=20 stations may still be regarded as an act of 'radio= =20 piracy' by the PA stations, transmitting on an fre= quency=20 band without official permission. It looks like it is= not=20 'legal' yet to QSO with PA on 600m unit official= =20 publications have been issued by Dutch Telecom Authorities= =20 and VERON and/or VRZA have informed indivual Radio Amat= eurs in=20 writing about their participation to the=20 experiments transmitting on 600m. I suppose a starting= date=20 somewhere in the future will be in order= , and not=20 legalising transmissions 'after the fact' as of 1-= 1-2010=20 0:00LET. 
 
Dutch Amateurs have a rich= history of=20 'illegal' first-QSO's, starting in the 1920's with the first= succesful=20 trans Atlantic QSO's from PA. The Radio Amateur, OM Jesse,= was=20 convicted of 'radio piracy' but not fined and the Judge= =20 congratulated him and complimented him on his=20 innovative achievement. History sometimes has the tende= ncy to=20 repeat it self.
 
Kind regards, Best 73's,
 
Michael Sanders, PC4M
 
 
 
 
QUOTE: >>
 
Onderzoek naar toegang tot= 500 KHz voor=20 radiozendamateurs

23-12-2009 

Tijdens het overleg met de=20 belangenverenigingen voor radiozendamateurs VERON en VRZA op= 7 oktober=20 2009 zijn afspraken gemaakt over de toegang tot de 500 KHz= band. De=20 verenigingen zullen onderzoeken wat de effecten zijn van het= uitzenden=20 in deze frequentieband in relatie tot de randvoorwaarden die= voor de=20 WRC 2012 zijn voorgesteld voor de 500 KHz band. De resultate= n van het=20 onderzoek worden ingebracht bij de nationale voorbereidingsc= ommissie=20 voor de WRC 2012 (NVC). De verenigingen moeten hiervoor een= rapport=20 indienen bij Agentschap Telecom.

Om het onderzoek= te=20 kunnen uitvoeren vragen de verenigingen een collectieve=20 experimenteervergunning aan bij Agentschap Telecom. Over de= inhoud van=20 de aanvraag van de experimenteervergunning voeren de verenig= ingen nog=20 overleg met de co=F6rdinator voor amateurzaken. De randvoorw= aarden voor=20 de aanvraag en de uitvoering van het experiment zijn inmidde= ls met de=20 VRON en VRZA besproken. 

Als vergunninghouder= =20 van de experimenteervergunning zijn de verenigingen verantwo= ordelijk=20 voor de uitvoering van het experiment. Zij kunnen individuel= e=20 radiozendamateurs informeren hoe zij in aanmerking kunnen ko= men voor=20 eventuele deelname aan dit experiment. 

Individ= uele aanvragen=20 voor een experimenteervergunning voor de 500 kHz zullen door= =20 Agentschap Telecom niet worden gehonoreerd .
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial; FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt">
Zo= dra de=20 experimenteervergunningen zijn verleend, maken wij dit beken= d via deze=20 website.

<<UNQUOTE

&nb= sp;

 
----- Original Message ---= --
Sent: Friday, Janua= ry 01, 2010=20 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: LF: PA= 0A on=20 500kHz

Rik,=20

Just looked at my grabber saves - this must be the tw= o of=20 you.

73

Gary - G4WGT

2010/1/1 Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>
I just worked PA0A on 502.5kHz with very good=20 signals.

73, Rik  ON7YD -=20 OR7T



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