Return-Path: Received: from rly-dd08.mx.aol.com (rly-dd08.mail.aol.com [172.19.141.155]) by air-dd03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDD032-b944b4cf5c5309; Tue, 12 Jan 2010 17:21:17 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-dd08.mx.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDD086-b944b4cf5c5309; Tue, 12 Jan 2010 17:20:55 -0500 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NUp5R-000293-RH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2010 22:19:41 +0000 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NUp5R-00028u-3d for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2010 22:19:41 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay3.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NUp5P-0001ec-OA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2010 22:19:41 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o0CMJcr6032104 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2010 23:19:38 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2010 23:19:38 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 23:19:34 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1A98@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1A98@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF:Ice and frost on 600m antenna Thread-Index: AcqTzenv43+hCsWeQ6eyI4E0VbWYogABn7Rp References: <249428.56994.qm@web28106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.672;12.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.8.383112, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.1.12.220920 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA93D5.521FAC01" Subject: AW: LF:Ice and frost on 600m antenna X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/0 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA93D5.521FAC01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable GE,=20 =20 ...but it will increase the PD inception level due to the high epsilon r= and so you can run more power (voltage) ;-) You should use this advantage= ;-). But be aware that the increased current does not melt the ice ;-)=20 So power should be a function of the outside temperature which could be re= gulated with a temperature sensor that is controlling the duty cycle of th= e input signal or the DC-voltage of the PA by a class h modulator ;-) =20 73, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Graham Gesendet: Di 12.01.2010 22:18 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF:Ice and frost on 600m antenna Pete, =20 The ice will be pure water and may not conduct .. will have some cap= acity implications though ! =20 G ..=20 From: M0FMT =20 Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 1:51 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF:Ice and frost on 600m antenna Hi LF Group=20 In an attempt to calculating the effect of ICE (Haw frost) on my antenna= I get these results.=20 With a wire diameter of 1.5mm flex weave, it comes out to 1.1 amps for 60= watts RF applied. This is confirmed crudely by observing a pair of car fe= stoon lamps (12Vx0.5A each) in parallel in the antenna up lead glowing to= full brightness.=20 With an estimated increase in antenna wire diameter to 10mm caused by the= Haw frost I did not notice any change in antenna current by this method.= =20 Running the calculation through using a 10mm wire I get 1.2 amps and again= to an absurd size of 20mm diameter there is virtually no increase in curr= ent.=20 The recent WX at this location has had no noticeable effect on the antenna= . If it did I would suspect leakage through a dodgy insulator at the top= of the inverted "L" up lead.=20 The type I use is a deeply ribbed glass insulator about 8 inches long.=20 73 es GL petefmt ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA93D5.521FAC01 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiQWAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAJQAAAEFXOiBMRjpJY2UgYW5kIGZy b3N0IG9uIDYwMG0gYW50ZW5uYQCVCwEFgAMADgAAANoHAQAMABcAEwAiAAIAPAEBIIADAA4AAADa BwEADAAXABMAIgACADwBAQmAAQAhAAAAMUJEMzJDMzBDN0RDQUI0MEI2MjhGMjI4MDAzNEExQTkA IQcBA5AGAPgVAAA4AAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAAawfUtWTygEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABBVzogAAAAAAIB RwABAAAAMgAAAGM9REU7YT0gO3A9SFNUO2w9RklMRS1TRVJWRVItSC0xMDAxMTIyMjE5MzRaLTEz NDMAAAAeAEkAAQAAACUAAABSZTogTEY6SWNlIGFuZCBmcm9zdCBvbiA2MDBtIGFudGVubmEAAAAA QABOAADsbNTMk8oBHgBaAAEAAAAjAAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVwLm9y 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