Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.78]) by air-df03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF034-5eed4b4c6ce92b; Tue, 12 Jan 2010 07:36:57 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 75DFC3800026C; Tue, 12 Jan 2010 07:36:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NUfyT-0000nV-Vv for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2010 12:35:53 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NUfyT-0000nM-E1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2010 12:35:53 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NUfyR-0000FE-HZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2010 12:35:53 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o0CCZmbM018471 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:35:48 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:35:49 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:35:46 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1A95@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1A95@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: AW: LF: PA0 into Alaska 600m Thread-Index: AcqTfmedapAbHhDEQd2LNkSnFu7eTQAAsMAW References: <20100111090709.EAAFE31E706@smtps01.kuleuven.be> <4B4C1D36.3090707@telia.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1A94@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4B4C625C.4080501@telia.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.671;11.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.8.383112, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.1.12.122417 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Karma: unknown: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA9383.C36DE375" Subject: AW: AW: LF: PA0 into Alaska 600m X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/52684 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404e4b4c6ce41c9a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) X-AOL-VSS-CODE: scan_error X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/0 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA9383.C36DE375 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok Jahan, tnx. =20 I do not use an output transformer in my E PAs, rather a simple coil (whic= h becomes the biggest part of the PA on 137kHz when losses should be less= :-) ), i mean a LC transformer.=20 OK, i understand what you mean about the harmonics. But are the harmonics= such a problem? I use a standard 4 pole lowpass filter and harmonics were= n't ever been a real problem. Even without a LP filter the wave looks asto= nishing sinus like ;-), at least at Z=3DR=3D50 Ohm. Additional complexity will be on the driver side (?) but that is an intere= sting concept! I have never thought about that. Are there no problems with= coupling? I mean, the phase has to be exactly 180deg and so you have to= choose exactly the same Cs, Ls and so on. What about the variation of the= parameters of the FETs and Ls and Cs due to temperature rising (if it is= not changing equally), manufacturing and so on? Isn't that a bigger probl= em than the harmonics? =20 What are you planning, how much power on wich band? And which FETs do you= use? IRFP series? =20 73 es gl :-)=20 =20 Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Johan H. Bodin Gesendet: Di 12.01.2010 12:51 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: AW: LF: PA0 into Alaska 600m Hi Stefan, yes, a single ended class E amplifier would give the same power with both FETs in parallel but, due to symmetry, the push-pull design has the advantage of cancelling all even order harmonics by design. 3f is the first harmonic to worry about so the lowpass filter can be made simpler. The added complexity of push-pull is minimal - one more capacitor and one more DC feeding choke. And, yes, an output transformer in case you didn't already use one for impedance matching in the single ended case. By the way, the amplitude of the first harmonics of a single ended class E amplifier (without lowpass filter!) is 0.51/QL (2f) and 0.08/QL (3f) with respect to the carrier (1f) amplitude. QL is the loaded Q of the series resonant tank, XL/Rload. Example: If QL =3D 5.1, a reasonable value, the amplitude of the 2f harmonic will be 0.51/5.1 =3D 0.1 compared to the carrier i.e. -20dBc. In a perfectly balanced push-pull circuit, the 2f harmonic will disappear so the first harmonic problem will be 3f at -36dBc which is "16dB easier" to filter and further from the carrier as well :-). 73 Johan SM6LKM ---- Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote: > Hi Johan, >=20 > What are you planning? This sounds like QROO? Why using a push-pull clas= s E stage when a single stange can do it? > I am interested! :-) >=20 > Stefan/DK7FC ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA9383.C36DE375 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ii8MAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAIQAAAEFXOiBBVzogTEY6IFBBMCBp bnRvIEFsYXNrYSA2MDBtAPsIAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcBAAwADQAjAC4AAgBOAQEggAMADgAAANoHAQAM AA0AIwAuAAIATgEBCYABACEAAAA0QzI2NUNBN0ZCMzkwQjRBOEU0Q0RCQURCRTA5RTNBOQCLBwED kAYA4BUAADgAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQB1423Dg5PKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEA AAAyAAAAYz1ERTthPSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1ILTEwMDExMjEyMzU0NlotMTMxMgAA AB4ASQABAAAAIQAAAFJlOiBBVzogTEY6IFBBMCBpbnRvIEFsYXNrYSA2MDBtAAAAAEAATgAAlrGj fZPKAR4AWgABAAAAIwAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAAAIBWwAB AAAAYwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tz 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