Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.26]) by air-mf06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMF061-8bed4b4c943991; Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:24:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C56A6380005BA; Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:24:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NUiUh-0001LQ-7E for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2010 15:17:19 +0000 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NUiUd-0001LH-Ne for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2010 15:17:16 +0000 Received: from web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.128]) by relay3.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NUiUZ-0007G0-Lk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2010 15:17:11 +0000 Received: (qmail 28210 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Jan 2010 15:17:06 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1263309426; bh=5tZ6NBEdgs5bURLlefiIuZbXMQ6X/CrfWQw4+pFkMKg=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=LCb4rcbR447u6pVQLglbpy3JBzX6+uX/hFz3z6HnAFpjzPIR49UhN0tyx41YiRTgKCd7zOybPtgjw1ha/0m+NZijEA2tIfHxpropFBd5yQsPnWuIYiDzO5Tg3JFHFifTqkVs8Vjl5kvoVteIUOOIWb63r/QnHChcxBI7zGDzZS0= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=cxcAMud8UvUnesnYSYNXp0zay1FzmeVhg1oYAj6bjxqEjWPCN3HWUwX52aP3UhIBlyN7iP1LddQMdos705Jli5YmvyeoHZ5VP8N2QVPP2eNjrKhbMpC/ElBfzqQKQdamiGIk4myFikwdJkXFUdVvvwsfPO/AGfvJ2XvplNKayn4=; Message-ID: <277394.27685.qm@web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: JW7mHNoVM1lRXXLfo6YkKtIdvewl8zNbfF0otZXrV3zdB.pjhC1Jyr8HRqE1ziHrDfd0zwrxv0MrxLSez0i2_VDcKuElmEfwQCkAiDwmnBurS1A.kuv2rnAC3I_i5ZMG8NwlxP.jzadPRWhnhM1JWT1p1W4WdlheP4Qwldy9I3VK5RvwHCbpCxvcJfCaHe4v3cqYKtiMpJlpBT0Aqc44iyC0_Tee8joQOkOTgznc222d2YFb1jMyNwuNlcGUEJlbTSpupiGN_NrHj8fB7fMap6ChqMZJna0dbmntFcf4H_VUDZ5uebiLqpsM25gn Received: from [86.130.57.5] by web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 12 Jan 2010 07:17:05 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.0.20 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 07:17:05 -0800 (PST) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <001d01ca9393$09a3b640$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF:Ice and frost on 600m antenna Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1567791151-1263309425=:27685" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d411a4b4c942e3b7d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1567791151-1263309425=:27685 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the info Mal =C2=A0 My wire is flexweave, the un-insulated type. Last week I was impressed by= the frost on the wire it made it look really fat. I did not actually meas= ure the amount of frost but eyeballed it at 10mm. But I could not detect= any change to the loading (I use fixed tapped coil with coupling loop),= busness as usual you miight say. I am sure there must be some effect but= I could not see with my gear. =C2=A0 This flexweave has let me down because early last year it broke. The thin= wires that make it up seemed very corroded and brittle so I am expecting= the repaired wire to come down again. I am thinking of replacing it=C2=A0= using 1.5mm or thereabouts diameter hard drawn copper for durability, what= do you think? =C2=A0 I have basically 4 radials of various diameter=C2=A0in H fashion running= the property boundry with the up lead at about=C2=A01/3 offset to=C2=A0ce= ntre of the H, =C2=A0best I can do at the moment. The ant is inv "L" 40m= lng up abt 13m. =C2=A0 If it wasn't for the 11kV at the bottom of the garden I could do a lot bet= ter.... hee. 73 es GL petefmt --- On Tue, 12/1/10, mal hamilton wrote: From: mal hamilton Subject: Re: LF:Ice and frost on 600m antenna To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tuesday, 12 January, 2010, 14:25 =EF=BB=BF=20 Pete I use 1.5mm insulated multi strand wire normally but sometimes 2.5mm but= since it is insulated the WX seems to have little effect on it.This is th= e 1/4 wave inv L TX antenna.Other antennas here use the same type of wire= and again the WX has little effect. My radials are also insulated 2.5 mm. Bare copper wire might be more vunerable to WX changes. de mal/g3kev =C2=A0 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: M0FMT=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 1:51 PM Subject: LF:Ice and frost on 600m antenna Hi LF Group=20 =C2=A0=20 In an attempt to calculating the effect of ICE (Haw frost) on my antenna= I get these results.=20 With a wire diameter of 1.5mm flex weave, it comes out to 1.1 amps for 60= watts RF applied. This is confirmed crudely by observing a pair of car fe= stoon lamps (12Vx0.5A each) in parallel in the antenna up lead glowing to= full brightness.=20 With an estimated increase in antenna wire diameter to 10mm caused by the= Haw frost I did not notice any change in antenna current by this method.= =20 Running the calculation through using a 10mm wire I get 1.2 amps and again= to an absurd size of 20mm diameter there is virtually no=C2=A0increase in= current.=20 =C2=A0=20 The recent WX at this location has had no noticeable effect on the antenna= . If it did I would suspect leakage through a dodgy insulator at the top= of the inverted =E2=80=9CL=E2=80=9D up lead.=20 The type I use is a deeply ribbed glass insulator about 8 inches long.=20 73 es GL petefmt =20 --0-1567791151-1263309425=:27685 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for the info Mal
 
My wire is flexweave, the un-insulated type. Last week I was impresse= d by the frost on the wire it made it look really fat. I did not actually= measure the amount of frost but eyeballed it at 10mm. But I could not det= ect any change to the loading (I use fixed tapped coil with coupling loop)= , busness as usual you miight say. I am sure there must be some effect but= I could not see with my gear.
 
This flexweave has let me down because early last year it broke. The= thin wires that make it up seemed very corroded and brittle so I am expec= ting the repaired wire to come down again. I am thinking of replacing it&n= bsp;using 1.5mm or thereabouts diameter hard drawn copper for durability,= what do you think?
 
I have basically 4 radials of various diameter in H fashion runn= ing the property boundry with the up lead at about 1/3 offset to = ;centre of the H,  best I can do at the moment. The ant is inv "L" 40= m lng up abt 13m.
 
If it wasn't for the 11kV at the bottom of the garden I could do a lo= t better.... hee.

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Tue, 12/1/10,= mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net> wrote:

From: mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net&g= t;
Subject: Re: LF:Ice and frost on 600m antenna
To: rsgb_lf_group@b= lacksheep.org
Date: Tuesday, 12 January, 2010, 14:25

=EF=BB=BF=20
Pete
I use 1.5mm insulated multi strand wire= normally but sometimes 2.5mm but since it is insulated the WX seems to ha= ve little effect on it.This is the 1/4= wave inv L TX antenna.Other antennas here use the same type of wire and= again the WX has little effect.
My radials are also insulated 2.5 mm.
Bare copper wire might be more vunerable= to WX changes.
de mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
From: M0FMT
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 1:5= 1 PM
Subject: LF:Ice and frost on 600m= antenna


Hi LF Group=20

 =20

In an attempt to calcul= ating the effect of ICE (Haw frost) on my antenna I get these results.=20

With a wire diameter of= 1.5mm flex weave, it comes out to 1.1 amps for 60 watts RF applied. This= is confirmed crudely by observing a pair of car festoon lamps (12Vx0.5A= each) in parallel in the antenna up lead glowing to full brightness.=20

With an estimated incre= ase in antenna wire diameter to 10mm caused by the Haw frost I did not not= ice any change in antenna current by this method.=20

Running the calculation= through using a 10mm wire I get 1.2 amps and again to an absurd size of= 20mm diameter there is virtually no increase in current.=20

 =20

The recent WX at this= location has had no noticeable effect on the antenna. If it did I would= suspect leakage through a dodgy insulator at the top of the inverted =E2= =80=9CL=E2=80=9D up lead.=20

The type I use is a dee= ply ribbed glass insulator about 8 inches long.=20


73 es GL petefmt



=20 --0-1567791151-1263309425=:27685--