From: "James Cowburn" <james.cowburn@virgin.net>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
References: <000e01ca9223$6d16ec90$0517aac0@desktop> <74FCFE8B23464B2DB8B5DF8D351877BD@JimPC>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 07:49:02 -0000
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Subject: LF: RE: Re: Link budget calculation or estimation of dist for given power on WSPR
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Dear LF,

Thanks to all for the informative answers.    It's a bit like working with
Pharmaceutical Regulators whose stock answer is "it depends"!!

Seriously thanks loads


 
With best regards
 
 
Jim
 
 
Dr. James Cowburn

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz
Sent: 10 January 2010 21:59
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re: Link budget calculation or estimation of dist for given
power on WSPR

Dear Jim, LF Group,

The main variables involved are:

TX ERP
TX directional pattern (probably only if a TX loop is used)
Distance - leading to "geometric" propagation losses
Other propagation losses - for DX signals, basically due to ionospheric 
effects
Band noise level at the receiver
Directional patttern of RX antenna
Received SNR required for mode in use

It is difficult to make a direct calculation because some of these are not 
known to any great level of confidence - in particular, the "other" 
ionospheric propagation losses, and the band noise level at a particular 
receiver. Noise levels can be determined by field strength measurements, 
although few people have done this - my best estimate at M0BMU is about 
3uV/m in 2.5kHz bandwidth under quiet conditions, although obviously varying

with time of day, band conditions, direction etc. There does not seem to be 
much info available for ionospheric losses at LF/MF - this is of course part

of the motivation for using modes such as WSPR to probe propagation. But you

can be sure that simply extrapolating results with closer stations to long 
distances won't give a reliable answer - there is no simple relation between

loss and distance.

But on a practical level, you can use the WSPR database to get a fairly good

idea of how much TX ERP you need to be received by particular stations, e.g.

WD2XSH/17 has spotted M0BMU 40 times during the past week, with SNR 
between -31dB and -16dB, but quite frequently around -25dB . G7NKS is a 
similar distance and path, so the same ERP (estimated at 2W for M0BMU) 
should give similar results. If you would be content with rather fewer spots

at around -30dB, close to the minimum for WSPR, you could reduce the ERP by 
about 5dB, or  perhaps even 10dB reduction (200mW) if you would be happy 
with just the odd 1 or 2 spots at peaks in the propagation - this is the 
kind of level G4JNT is running, and has indeed been spotted a couple of 
times at WD2XSH/17. You could do a similar kind of estimate with other 
stations, of course.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Cowburn" <james.cowburn@virgin.net>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 6:33 PM
Subject: LF: Link budget calculation or estimation of dist for given power 
on WSPR


> Dear LF,
>
> Has anyone any ideas or suggestions on a resource for calculation of a 
> link
> budget for WSPR over a set distance?