Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.201]) by air-de05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE052-5eb34b4240af36c; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 14:25:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4E21F3800E76C; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:44:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NRrti-00012I-8K for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 18:43:22 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NRrth-000129-Ek for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 18:43:21 +0000 Received: from out1.ip05ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.241]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NRrte-0004Do-SG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 18:43:21 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: As4EABXFQUtcG7A5/2dsb2JhbACCFosrBsgygiKCDgQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.47,499,1257120000"; d="scan'208,217";a="259828672" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.27.176.57]) by out1.ip05ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 04 Jan 2010 18:43:12 +0000 Message-ID: <006f01ca8d6d$c40eb3d0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <005801ca8be9$fe628230$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <9afca2641001021420k5b4b5856x2dadbe35e2c87ead@mail.gmail.com> <000f01ca8d1e$5ff69010$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <9afca2641001040235u530e68b2i6c663bd665de075b@mail.gmail.com> <003701ca8d56$71677570$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <4E66E5A6231D407898A2A06295F842B0@p4> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 18:43:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Karma: unknown: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: Z codes etc Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006C_01CA8D6D.C3DF1850" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40c94b4237156c11 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_006C_01CA8D6D.C3DF1850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark My only observations about WSPR is that it is an Appliance Operator mo= de. Set it up go to work or go to bed and check a data base once a yea= r or more often if one desires.=20 I personally do not need WSPR because I can get on a band and after a= short observation make a decision whether the propagation at the time= suits what I want to achieve and commence communications in real time= . To find out later as in using WSPR is pointless because the opportun= ity has passed.=20 How would DXPEDITIOINS implement WSPR when one needs to know at a spec= ific time when to engage a particular band to work particular countrie= s in reral time. WSPR is a store and tell mode and useless except for those that want= to fiddle with machines then leave them unattende and hope for the be= st How did we professional operators manage communications and propagatio= n this past 100 years without WSPR, and still do. WSPR is a toy for those that fumble and get muddled with CW and the= only alternative is Mobile Phone, Internet or Wspr. G3KEV ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 5:43 PM Subject: LF: Z codes etc ZKB? ZHP G3KEV ???? ZCS ZAZ=20 For those interested in Z codes http://ww2.isys.ca/lberta/zcode1.html Seriously though Mal. You seem to be lucky enough to be able to devo= te hours of your day to policing the lower bands, and actually operati= ng, which must be great. Most of us have other things to do and some= can contribute more by the use of innovative software and systems tha= t allow automatic reporting of signals at levels comparable to or bett= er than any human operator, without having to stay glued to the receiv= er. I fully expect to be able to gather enough data from WSPR transmissi= ons eventually to measure the movement and size of propagation 'zones'= and probably other useful data too. I don't expect you to understand= the technicalities, I have only a limited ability in this area, I fin= d the maths hard, but then I am not a Nobel prize winner. There are th= ose in our community who really do understand what the potential is an= d are working hard to realise it.=20 The use of these modes and the potential benefits may be outside you= r interests, but have the courtesy to respect that others actively wis= h to use the band for genuine experimental reasons, rather that just= operating. Some may not even want to have QSOs =20 FWIW, I am also a keen and fairly competent cw operator, perhaps wit= hout prejudices instilled by my profession, and I am able to operate= and receive weak CW within tens of Hz of other transmissions. If you= are half the operator you claim to be, you too will not be severely= impacted by the usage of a small segment of the band by WSPR or other= machine generated transmissions.=20 A good proportion of my operation from 500KHz to 24GHz and even ligh= t, is on CW, and it has netted me more DX and first countries from GM= that I can remember. However you will find me on JT65 and JT6M regula= rly on 4m and 6m as it is better for some of the propagation modes I= am interested in.=20 I will be running up a WSPR transmitting station on 500KHz soon with= luck, and will endeavour to provide the grabber and WSPR receive syst= em, 24/7 www.dc2light.co.uk =20 There is room, even in the 500KHz band, for multiple modes and inter= ests to be explored without significant conflict. Be happy that the ba= nd is being actively used. =20 You are not going to have regular QSOs with stations like me who wan= t to experiment, as I am not often in a position to break out the key.= When I do have time to operate, it is likely to be on CW, the WSPR sy= stem will be off and I hope to see you there! Happy New Year Mark GM4ISM ----- Original Message -----=20 From: mal hamilton=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 3:56 PM Subject: Re: LF: Anti Social ssb ZBM2 ZBM2 ZBM2 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Roger Lapthorn=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 10:35 AM Subject: Re: LF: Anti Social ssb Mal - GROW UP. 2010/1/4 mal hamilton This is fantastic news for the Appliance Operator. Follow a ba= sic set up guide then let the unattended machines, all 200 of them gro= wling away at each other at 2 minute intervals. Operator check data ba= se once a year for possible hits. I am surprised it is not more popular. Over Xmas the bulk of activity was by Radio Operators on LF us= ing CW and QRS plus some limited MF activity again using CW. de G3KEV ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Roger Lapthorn=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 10:20 PM Subject: Re: LF: Anti Social ssb Mal,=20 Some suggestions: 1.. More people should use WSPR - lots of stations (more= than 100 at a time based on 10MHz usage) are able to operate together= within just a 200Hz slice of the band allowing very useful data on pr= opagation and station performance/changes to be determined. This woul= d leave plenty of room elsewhere in the band for CW and other narrowba= nd conversational modes.=20 2.. Occasional testing with SSB, for those allowed to use= it (not UK), is of interest to me as a listener, but I agree that it'= s not a good idea to use this mode when the band is open for really lo= ng-distance DX if interference to weak signals is likely.=20 3.. You should try a New Year resolution: "I will be more= tolerant and moan less".=20 73s and a happy New Year to all on this reflector Roger G3XBM 2010/1/2 mal hamilton I am afraid we have a SSB beacon on 508 kcs spreading over= 3 kcs wide and S9 plus with me. Beacon SM6BHZ is causing QRM to those= of us trying to listen and work the East Coast USA stations. I cannot= understand why a station is licensed to work SSB in such a narrow ban= d allocation.=20 The 500 kcs band is a Shambles swamped by beacons. Does anyone else have an opinion? G3KEV --=20 ------------------------------------------------------------= - http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --=20 ------------------------------------------------------------- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_006C_01CA8D6D.C3DF1850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mark
My only observations about WSPR is th= at it is an=20 Appliance Operator mode. Set it up go to work or go to bed and check= a data base=20 once a year or more often if one desires.
I personally do not need WSPR because= I can get on=20 a band and after a short observation make a decision whether the propa= gation at=20 the time suits what I want to achieve and commence communications in= real time.=20 To find out later as in using WSPR is pointless because the opportunit= y has=20 passed.
How would DXPEDITIOINS implement WSPR= when one=20 needs to know at a specific time when to engage a particular band to= work=20 particular countries in reral time.
WSPR is a store and tell &n= bsp;mode and=20 useless except for those that want to fiddle with machines then leave= them=20 unattende and hope for the best
How did we professional operators man= age=20 communications and propagation this past 100 years without WSPR, and= still=20 do.
WSPR is a toy for those that fumble&n= bsp;and get=20 muddled  with CW and the only alternative is Mobile Phone, Intern= et or=20 Wspr.
 
G3KEV
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark
Sent: Monday, January 04, 201= 0 5:43=20 PM
Subject: LF: Z codes etc

ZKB?
 
ZHP G3KEV ????
 
ZCS
 
 
 
 
ZAZ
 
For those interested in Z codes
http://ww2.isys.ca/lberta/zcode1.html
 

Seriously though= Mal.=20 You seem to be lucky enough to be able to devote hours of= your day=20 to policing the lower bands, and actually operating, which must be= =20 great.  Most of us have other things=20 to do and some can contribute more by the use of innovative sof= tware and=20 systems that allow automatic reporting of signals at levels comparab= le to or=20 better than any human operator, without having to stay glu= ed to the=20 receiver.

I fully expect to= be able to=20 gather enough data from WSPR transmissions eventually to measure=20 the movement and size of propagation 'zones'  and pro= bably=20 other useful data too. I don=92t expect you to understand the techni= calities, I=20 have only a limited ability in this area, I find the maths hard= , but then=20 I am not a Nobel prize winner. There are those in our community=  who=20 really do understand what the potential is and are working hard= to=20 realise it. 

The use of these= modes and the=20 potential benefits may be outside your interests, but have the court= esy to=20 respect that others actively wish to use the band for genuine experi= mental=20 reasons, rather that just operating. Some may not even want to have= =20 QSOs

 <= /FONT>

FWIW, I am also a= keen and=20 fairly competent cw operator, perhaps without prejudices instilled= by my=20 profession, and I am able to operate and receive weak CW within tens= of Hz of=20 other transmissions. If you are half the operator you claim to be,= you too=20 will not be severely impacted by the usage of a small segment of the= band by=20 WSPR or other machine generated transmissions. 

A good proportion&= nbsp;of my=20 operation from 500KHz to 24GHz and even light, is on CW, and it= has=20 netted me more DX and first countries from GM that I can remember.= However you=20 will find me on JT65 and JT6M regularly on 4m and 6m as it is better= for some=20 of the propagation modes I am interested in.

I will be running= up a WSPR=20 transmitting station on 500KHz soon with luck, and will en= deavour to=20 provide the grabber and WSPR receive system, 24/7

www.dc2light.co.uk

 <= /FONT>

There is room, eve= n in the=20 500KHz band, for multiple modes and interests to be explored without= =20 significant conflict. Be happy that the band is being actively=20 used.

 <= /FONT>

You are not going= to have regular=20 QSOs with stations like me who want to experiment, as I am not often= in a=20 position to break out the key. When I do have time to operate, it is= likely to=20 be on CW, the WSPR system will be off and I hope to see you=20 there!

 

Happy New Year

Mark GM4ISM=

 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 mal=20 hamilton
Sent: Monday, January 04,= 2010 3:56=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Anti Socia= l ssb

ZBM2 ZBM2 ZBM2
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Roger Lapthorn
Sent: Monday, January 04,= 2010 10:35=20 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Anti Soc= ial=20 ssb

Mal - GROW UP.

2010/1/4 mal hamilton &= lt;g3kevmal@talktalk.= net>
This is fantastic news for th= e Appliance=20 Operator. Follow a basic set up guide then let the unattended= machines,=20 all 200 of them growling away at each other at 2 minute interv= als.=20 Operator check data base once a year for possible hits.=
I am surprised it is not more= =20 popular.
Over Xmas the bulk of activit= y was by Radio=20 Operators on LF using CW and QRS plus some limited MF activity= again=20 using CW.
de G3KEV
 
-----=20 Original Message -----
From:=20 Roger Lapthorn
Sent:=20 Saturday, January 02, 2010 10:20 PM
Subject:=20 Re: LF: Anti Social ssb

Mal,

Some suggestions:
  1. More people should use WSPR - lots of stations= (more than=20 100 at a time based on 10MHz usage) are able to operate to= gether=20 within just a 200Hz slice of the band allowing very useful= data on=20 propagation and station performance/changes to be determin= ed. =20 This would leave plenty of room elsewhere in the band for= CW and=20 other narrowband conversational modes.=20
  2. Occasional testing with SSB, for those allowed to use= it (not=20 UK), is of interest to me as a listener, but I agree that= it's=20 not a good idea to use this mode when the band is= open for=20 really long-distance DX if interference to weak signals is= likely.=20
  3. You should try a New Year resolution: "I will be more= tolerant=20 and moan less".
73s and a happy New Year to= all on this=20 reflector

Roger G3XBM




2010/1/2 mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net>
I am afraid we have a SSB= beacon on 508=20 kcs spreading over 3 kcs wide and S9 plus with me. Beacon= SM6BHZ is=20 causing QRM to those of us trying to listen and work the= East Coast=20 USA stations. I cannot understand why a station is license= d to work=20 SSB in such a narrow band allocation.
The 500 kcs band is a Sha= mbles swamped=20 by beacons.
Does anyone else have an= =20 opinion?
G3KEV
 



--=20
--------------------------------------------------------= -----
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
h= ttp://www.g3xbm.co.uk
G3XBM    GQRP=20 1678      ISWL=20 G11088

=

--=20
------------------------------------------------------------= -
http://g3xbm-q= rp.blogspot.com/
htt= p://www.g3xbm.co.uk
G3XBM  =20  GQRP 1678      ISWL=20 G11088
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