Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.18]) by air-dd05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDD053-865b4b40deeebf; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 13:16:14 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9D459380000BA; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 13:16:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NRUyg-0003RU-5L for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 18:14:58 +0000 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NRUyf-0003RL-4Z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 18:14:57 +0000 Received: from out1.ip01ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.237]) by relay3.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NRUyd-0001CR-8f for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 18:14:57 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgMGAK9tQEtOlW6h/2dsb2JhbACCFRqLDYIJwV6EMAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.47,493,1257120000"; d="scan'208,217";a="267754070" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.149.110.161]) by out1.ip01ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 03 Jan 2010 18:14:45 +0000 Message-ID: <006101ca8ca0$9d2abc00$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <926747.2377.qm@web28106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 18:14:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Re: LF: PA0A on 500kHz / legal or piracy? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005E_01CA8CA0.9CDBFFC0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60124b40deed09f1 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01CA8CA0.9CDBFFC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sri to inform you but most were within the UK allocation however that= matters not are they legal or otherwise operating around the 500 khz= allocation. Looks like PA0A is legal after some mis information from others. I was the first stn in the UK/EU area to work PA0A, his first QSO and= a first PA/G qso Worked at midnight 1st Jan 2010. de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: M0FMT=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 5:04 PM Subject: Re: LF: PA0A on 500kHz / legal or piracy? Hi Mal and LF I think (from memory) all the stations you listed were outside= the 501-504 apart from the PA station. And I am sure they were all fu= lly licenced station within their own respective territories. 73 es GL petefmt --- On Sun, 3/1/10, mal hamilton wrote= : From: mal hamilton Subject: Re: LF: PA0A on 500kHz / legal or piracy? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sunday, 3 January, 2010, 16:35 WHY so much fuss about this station PA0A, what about all the= acty over XMAS and NEW YEAR IE MGY, PAT, IBHE, TEST XMAS, and others. Are these legal or ot= herwise? g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: M0FMT=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 4:11 PM Subject: Re: LF: PA0A on 500kHz / legal or piracy? Hi LF I take it that PA0A is one of the non legal stations= we've been warned about (see below). He was CQing last night and no= one called him although there were several on the band. Not a good id= ea to give Pirates a report not sure how it would affect our licence= to use the band? 73 es GL petefmt --- On Sat, 2/1/10, M. Sanders wro= te: From: M. Sanders Subject: Re: LF: PA0A on 500kHz / legal or piracy? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: pa0shy@veron.nl Date: Saturday, 2 January, 2010, 1:13 To all LF, Please beware that the official Dutch Telecom Agen= cy has not yet published the issue of experimental licences for the 60= 0m band tot the Dutch Amateur Radio organisations VERON and / or VRZA.= For those able to understand Dutch language the most recent official= publication is quoted below. However not all their memebers seem to= have been adequately informed about the process. It is not even clear= if notifications to participate in the experiment by individual Radio= Amateurs have already been processed by the organisations. I am most sorry to inform all LF interested partie= s via this reflector that the transmissions like the one recorded belo= w and and therfore QSO's with PA stations may still be regarded as an= act of 'radio piracy' by the PA stations, transmitting on an frequenc= y band without official permission. It looks like it is not 'legal' ye= t to QSO with PA on 600m unit official publications have been issued= by Dutch Telecom Authorities and VERON and/or VRZA have informed indi= vual Radio Amateurs in writing about their participation to the experi= ments transmitting on 600m. I suppose a starting date somewhere in the= future will be in order, and not legalising transmissions 'after the= fact' as of 1-1-2010 0:00LET.=20 Dutch Amateurs have a rich history of 'illegal' fi= rst-QSO's, starting in the 1920's with the first succesful trans Atlan= tic QSO's from PA. The Radio Amateur, OM Jesse, was convicted of 'radi= o piracy' but not fined and the Judge congratulated him and compliment= ed him on his innovative achievement. History sometimes has the tenden= cy to repeat it self. Kind regards, Best 73's, Michael Sanders, PC4M QUOTE: >> Onderzoek naar toegang tot 500 KHz voor radiozenda= mateurs 23-12-2009=20 Tijdens het overleg met de belangenverenigingen vo= or radiozendamateurs VERON en VRZA op 7 oktober 2009 zijn afspraken ge= maakt over de toegang tot de 500 KHz band. De verenigingen zullen onde= rzoeken wat de effecten zijn van het uitzenden in deze frequentieband= in relatie tot de randvoorwaarden die voor de WRC 2012 zijn voorgeste= ld voor de 500 KHz band. De resultaten van het onderzoek worden ingebr= acht bij de nationale voorbereidingscommissie voor de WRC 2012 (NVC).= De verenigingen moeten hiervoor een rapport indienen bij Agentschap= Telecom. Om het onderzoek te kunnen uitvoeren vragen de ver= enigingen een collectieve experimenteervergunning aan bij Agentschap= Telecom. Over de inhoud van de aanvraag van de experimenteervergunnin= g voeren de verenigingen nog overleg met de co=F6rdinator voor amateur= zaken. De randvoorwaarden voor de aanvraag en de uitvoering van het ex= periment zijn inmiddels met de VRON en VRZA besproken.=20 Als vergunninghouder van de experimenteervergunnin= g zijn de verenigingen verantwoordelijk voor de uitvoering van het exp= eriment. Zij kunnen individuele radiozendamateurs informeren hoe zij= in aanmerking kunnen komen voor eventuele deelname aan dit experiment= .=20 Individuele aanvragen voor een experimenteervergun= ning voor de 500 kHz zullen door Agentschap Telecom niet worden gehono= reerd . Zodra de experimenteervergunningen zijn verleend,= maken wij dit bekend via deze website.=20 < I just worked PA0A on 502.5kHz with very good= signals. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01CA8CA0.9CDBFFC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sri to inform you but most were withi= n the UK=20 allocation however that matters not are they legal or otherwise operat= ing around=20 the 500 khz allocation.
Looks like PA0A is legal after some= mis=20 information from others.
I was the first stn in the UK/EU= area to work=20 PA0A, his first QSO and a first PA/G qso
Worked at midnight 1st Jan 2010.
de mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 M0FMT=
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 201= 0 5:04=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: PA0A on 500k= Hz / legal=20 or piracy?

Hi Mal and LF
 
I think (from memory) all the stations you listed were ou= tside the=20 501-504 apart from the PA station. And I am sure the= y=20 were all fully licenced station within their own= respective=20 territories.

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Sun,= 3/1/10, mal=20 hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net>=20 wrote:

From:=20 mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net>
Subject:=20 Re: LF: PA0A on 500kHz / legal or piracy?
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Sunday, 3 January, 201= 0,=20 16:35

WHY so much fuss about this= station PA0A,=20 what about all the acty over XMAS and NEW YEAR IE
MGY, PAT, IBHE, TEST XMAS,= and=20 others. Are these legal or otherwise?
g3kev
 
----- Original Message ---= --
Fr= om: M0FMT
Sent: Sunday, Janua= ry 03, 2010=20 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: LF: PA= 0A on 500kHz=20 / legal or piracy?

Hi LF
 
I take it that PA0A is one of the non legal sta= tions=20 we've been warned about (see below). He was CQing la= st night=20 and no one called him although there were several on= the band.=20 Not a good idea to give Pirates a report not sure ho= w it would=20 affect our licence to use the band?

73 es GL= =20 petefmt

--- On Sat, 2/1/10, M. Sanders = <mis= an@xs4all.nl>=20 wrote:

F= rom:=20 M. Sanders <misan@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re:= LF: PA0A=20 on 500kHz / legal or piracy?
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Cc: pa0shy@veron.n= l
Date:=20 Saturday, 2 January, 2010, 1:13

To all LF,=
 
Please beware tha= t the official=20 Dutch Telecom Agency has not yet published the iss= ue of=20 experimental licences for the 600m band tot= the Dutch=20 Amateur Radio organisations VERON and /=20 or VRZA. For those able to understand Du= tch=20 language the most recent official publication is= quoted=20 below. However not all their memebe= rs seem=20 to have been adequately informed ab= out the=20 process. It is not even clear=20 if notifications to participate in= the=20 experiment by individual Radio Amateurs have= =20 already been processed by the=20 organisations.
 
I am most sorry= to inform all=20 LF interested parties via this reflector that= the=20 transmissions like the one recorded below&nbs= p;and and=20 therfore QSO's with PA stations may stil= l be=20 regarded as an act of 'radio piracy' by the&n= bsp;PA=20 stations, transmitting on an frequency band withou= t official=20 permission. It looks like it is not=20 'legal' yet to QSO with PA on 600m unit= official=20 publications have been issued by Dutch Telecom Aut= horities=20 and VERON and/or VRZA have informed indivual= Radio=20 Amateurs in writing about their participation= to the=20 experiments transmitting on 600m. I suppose= a starting=20 date somewhere in the future will=20 be in order, and not legalising=20 transmissions 'after the fact' as of 1-1= -2010=20 0:00LET. 
 
Dutch Amateurs ha= ve a rich=20 history of 'illegal' first-QSO's, starting in the= 1920's=20 with the first succesful trans Atlantic QSO's from= PA. The=20 Radio Amateur, OM Jesse, was convicted of 'radio= piracy' but=20 not fined and the Judge congratulated him and= =20 complimented him on his innovative achie= vement.=20 History sometimes has the tendency to repeat it=20 self.
 
Kind regards, Bes= t=20 73's,
 
Michael Sanders,= =20 PC4M
 
 
 
 
QUOTE: >>
 
Onderzoek naar to= egang tot 500=20 KHz voor radiozendamateurs

23-12-2009 

Tijdens het= =20 overleg met de belangenverenigingen voor radiozend= amateurs=20 VERON en VRZA op 7 oktober 2009 zijn afspraken gem= aakt over=20 de toegang tot de 500 KHz band. De verenigingen zu= llen=20 onderzoeken wat de effecten zijn van het uitzenden= in deze=20 frequentieband in relatie tot de randvoorwaarden= die voor de=20 WRC 2012 zijn voorgesteld voor de 500 KHz band. De= =20 resultaten van het onderzoek worden ingebracht bij= de=20 nationale voorbereidingscommissie voor de WRC 2012= (NVC). De=20 verenigingen moeten hiervoor een rapport indienen= bij=20 Agentschap Telecom.

Om het=20 onderzoek te kunnen uitvoeren vragen de vereniging= en een=20 collectieve experimenteervergunning aan bij Agents= chap=20 Telecom. Over de inhoud van de aanvraag van de=20 experimenteervergunning voeren de verenigingen nog= overleg=20 met de co=F6rdinator voor amateurzaken. De randvoo= rwaarden=20 voor de aanvraag en de uitvoering van het experime= nt zijn=20 inmiddels met de VRON en VRZA=20 besproken. 

Als=20 vergunninghouder van de experimenteervergunning zi= jn de=20 verenigingen verantwoordelijk voor de uitvoering= van het=20 experiment. Zij kunnen individuele radiozendamateu= rs=20 informeren hoe zij in aanmerking kunnen komen voor= eventuele=20 deelname aan dit experiment. 
<= BR>Individuele=20 aanvragen voor een experimenteervergunning voor de= 500 kHz=20 zullen door Agentschap Telecom niet worden=20 gehonoreerd .

Zod= ra de=20 experimenteervergunningen zijn verleend, maken wij= dit=20 bekend via deze website.

<<UNQUOTE

= =20

 
----- Original= Message -----=20
From:=20 = Gary - G4WGT
Sent: Fri= day, January=20 01, 2010 9:13 PM
Subject:= Re: LF: PA0A=20 on 500kHz

Rik,=20

Just looked at my grabber saves - this must= be the=20 two of you.

73

Gary - G4WGT

2010/1/1 Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>
I=20 just worked PA0A on 502.5kHz with very good=20 signals.

73, Rik  ON7YD -=20 OR7T


=

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