Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.148]) by air-de06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE061-5eb64b58660136c; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:34:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E0396380000FD; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:34:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NXy6B-0005hu-S6 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 14:33:27 +0000 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NXy6B-0005hl-42 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 14:33:27 +0000 Received: from out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.240]) by relay3.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NXy69-0006Dx-9w for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 14:33:27 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AkcNALH0V0tUDZoT/2dsb2JhbACCF4YsAYc2vFYIjB2CRgiBbgQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,317,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="280862046" Received: from host-84-13-154-19.opaltelecom.net (HELO laptopcore2) ([84.13.154.19]) by out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net with ESMTP; 21 Jan 2010 14:33:17 +0000 From: "g3zjo" To: Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 14:33:17 -0000 Message-ID: <000001ca9aa6$ac0b49b0$0202a8c0@laptopcore2> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20100121104239.E3CDE31E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: RE: about guns, water pistols and dripping tabs Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01CA9AA6.AC0B49B0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: S x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40944b5865fe3c42 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CA9AA6.AC0B49B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Rik =20 Thanks for looking up that information and sharing it. It is so good when the figures work out logically. I have been careful not to make excessive claims of my ERP as has Roger. I try to take account of any slight improvements I make. A good thing because any silly claims woul= d have been blown out of the water by the actual figures. =20 There is one more comparison, that of my ERP against G4JNT. Andy averages 23dB more than me; his ERP is stated as 0.2W, 30dB more than mine. This discrepancy is in the same direction as the JNT =96 XBM example, we need that 6dB standard dev again. =20 Interestingly the RF at 50ohm difference G4JNT 100Watts, G3ZJO 1Watt= is 20dB. I would fully expect my antenna to be 10dB worse than Andy=92s. =20 Most interesting. =20 73 =20 =20 Eddie G3ZJO =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Rik Strobbe Sent: 21 January 2010 10:43 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: about guns, water pistols and dripping tabs =20 Eddie, Andy, Roger, all, the nice thing about WSPR and the www.wspr.org web site is that a lot af data is available. I copied the my spots (past 7 days) of G4JNT, G3XBM and G3ZJO from the web site and threw them in the mill to check how often I copied at least 2 of the 3 calls in the same time slot: I took only the night time spots as I assume that propagation then is= 1 hop ionospheric and small differences in distance are less important. * G3XBM - G3ZJO: 6 'hits', average difference =3D 8dB (in favor of Rog= er) 6 data sets is a bit low to to proper statistics, but the difference= of 8dB between Roger and Eddie fits well into the claimed ERP's (1mW and 200uW =3D 7dB) * G4JNT - G3XBM : 60 'hits', average difference =3D 15dB (in favor of Andy) 15dB difference would mean that if Roger's 1mW ERP is correct that And= y would run "only" 30mW ERP ? But the standard dev. is 6dB, so it could be (a more realistic) 120mW= as well ... * G4JNT - G3ZJO: 6 'hits', average difference =3D 23dB (in favor of An= dy) Nice, this is the sum of the previous values (as iit should be ;-) ) All values are give or take some dB, but they seem to make sense. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T At 23:14 20/01/2010, you wrote: Yeh ! Congratulations Roger. =20 Lubos you have the Water Pistol, can you now RX a tiny Dripping Tap,= my QRPp 200uW ERP is on.. =20 73 =20 Eddie G3ZJO =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [ mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Andy Talbot Sent: 20 January 2010 22:01 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: G3XBM =20 Congratulations, "water pistol" 1200km - a very comfortable margin too. =20 Andy www.g4jnt.com 2010/1/20 Lubos OK2BVG Hello Roger, LF! This moment is just now: 2136 -7 0.2 0.503874 0 G4JNT IO90 23 2142 -29 -0.5 0.503910 1 G3XBM JO02 0 Congratulation! Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS _____ =20 Windows 7: Kter=FD po=E8=EDta=E8 je pro v=E1s ten prav=FD? Dal=B9=ED informace. =20 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com =20 Version: 9.0.730 / Virus Database: 270.14.151/2633 - Release Date: 01/19/10 17:49:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.730 / Virus Database: 270.14.151/2633 - Release Date: 01/20/10 19:18:00 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CA9AA6.AC0B49B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Rik<= /font>

 <= /font>

Thanks for loo= king up that information and sharing it. It is so good when the figures work out logically. I have= been careful not to make excessive claims of my ERP as has Roger. I try to take acc= ount of any slight improvements I make. A good thing because any silly claims= would have been blown out of the water by the actual figures.<= /p>

 <= /font>

There is one= more comparison, that of my ERP against G4JNT. Andy averages 23dB more than me; his ERP is stated= as 0.2W, 30dB more than mine. This discrepancy is in the same direction as the= JNT – XBM example, we need that 6dB standard dev again.

 <= /font>

Interestingly= the RF at 50ohm difference G4JNT 100Watts, G3ZJO 1Watt is 20dB. I would fully expect my antenna to be= 10dB worse than Andy’s.

 <= /font>

Most interesti= ng.

 <= /font>

73 =A0=A0=A0

 <= /font>

Eddie= G3ZJO

 <= /font>

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] On Behalf Of = Rik Strobbe
Sent: 21 January 2010= 10:43
To: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
Subject: LF: about guns= , water pistols and dripping tabs

 

Eddie, Andy, Rog= er, all,

the nice thing about WSPR and the www.wspr.org web site is that a lot af data is avai= lable.
I copied the my spots (past 7 days) of G4JNT, G3XBM and G3ZJO from the= web site and threw them in the mill to check how often I copied  at least= 2 of the 3 calls in the same time slot:
I took only the night time spots as I assume that propagation then is= 1 hop ionospheric and small differences in distance are less important.

* G3XBM - G3ZJO: 6 'hits', average difference =3D 8dB (in favor of Rog= er)
6 data sets is a bit low to to proper statistics, but the difference= of 8dB between Roger and Eddie fits well into the claimed ERP's (1mW and 200u= W =3D 7dB)

* G4JNT - G3XBM : 60 'hits', average difference =3D 15dB (in favor of= Andy)
15dB difference would mean that if Roger's 1mW ERP is correct that And= y would run "only" 30mW ERP ?
But the standard dev. is 6dB, so it could be (a more realistic) 120mW= as well ...

* G4JNT - G3ZJO: 6 'hits', average difference =3D 23dB (in favor of An= dy)
Nice, this is the sum of the previous values (as iit should be ;-) )
All values are give or take some dB, but they seem to make sense.

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T

At 23:14 20/01/2010, you wrote:

Yeh ! Congratulations Roger.
 
Lubos you have the Water Pistol, can you now RX a tiny Dripping Tap,= my QRPp 200uW ERP is on..
 
73
 
Eddie G3ZJO
 
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [ mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Andy Talbot
Sent: 20 January 2010= 22:01
To: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: G3XBM<= br>  
Congratulations,  "water pistol"
1200km - a very comfortable margin too.
 

Andy
www.g4jnt.com

2010/1/20 Lubos OK2BVG <bvgbo= b@hotmail.com>
Hello Roger, LF!
This moment is just now:

2136  -7  0.2   0.503874  0 G4JNT IO90 23

2142 -29 -0.5 &nb= sp; 0.503910  1 G3XBM JO02 0

Congratulation!

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS

Windows 7: Kter= =FD po=E8=EDta=E8 je pro v=E1s ten prav=FD? Dal=B9=ED informace.
 

No virus= found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.= avg.com
Version: 9.0.730 / Virus Database: 270.14.151/2633 - Release Date: 01/= 19/10 17:49:00

No virus found in this incoming messa= ge.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.730 / Virus Database: 270.14.151/2633 - Release Date: 01/= 20/10 19:18:00

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CA9AA6.AC0B49B0--