Return-Path: Received: from rly-mc08.mx.aol.com (rly-mc08.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.92]) by air-mc04.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC042-d8c4b275f4e2; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 05:05:15 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-mc08.mx.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMC084-d8c4b275f4e2; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 05:05:04 -0500 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NKUEP-0000JJ-2Z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:02:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NKUEO-0000JA-Gx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:02:12 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NKUFg-0003vd-Uj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:03:35 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id nBFA3lLr016605 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 11:03:48 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 11:03:47 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 11:03:47 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E828AC66@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> In-Reply-To: <4B250D02.733.14E9A34@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: LF: "Gain" between qrss3 and qrss10? Thread-Index: Acp8DFgK38Bq7atySNye8OlPWPt21QBWmdgw From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.624;14.12.2009 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.8.383112, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2009.12.15.95116 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Karma: unknown: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA7D6D.E3900B19" Subject: AW: LF: "Gain" between qrss3 and qrss10? X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA7D6D.E3900B19 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear LF,=20 I have done some further thoughts/questions about the "gain" between the= qrss modes. If the "gain" or better said SNR between qrss30 and qrss3 is 10dB, so can= I do a QSO to VK with 1W TX Power and an antenna efficiency of 1/1000 if= I choose QRSS10000000000? That's a litte jokingly formulated but you know= what I mean. In other words, where are the limitations of this rule?=20 In CW I think that rule cannot be valid because a dot in CW (say 20wpm) is= much shorter than 0,3s but to my experience the "gain" compared to qrss3= is not even 10dB. Furthermore a PC must be seen as a source of QRM, espec= ially when connected to the antenna system (e.g. for switching a tx relay= with the qrs-programm) and RX (even when using a insulating transformer= for the AF), and so it always brings a "negative gain", even when one use= s 10s of ferrite cores... =20 And: I always thought of the energy "waste" when applying 1kW (before 6 yr= s when I became qrv with a much worse antenna) to the antenna and pumping= 999,9W into the earth. But when I need 10x the time in qrss30 to do the= qso with 100W, the needed energy is the same (compared to 1kW in qrss3).= So, qsos could be done much faster if choosing 10x the power and stay in= qrss3. The additional advantage would be, if I try to do a TA QSO I could= just stay in the region of 137.7 and those who are qrv in qrss3 and only= watch the qrss3-sector would get a nice signal and thus more fascination= for the LF-hobby (I often think about the LWLs watching my transmission= when no one is answering my call ;-)). In sum, the needed energy (=3Dmone= y) is the same but the needed time would be 10x less. Of course, there would be some problems like partial discharges due to the= high voltage at the antenna and for 10kW the kitchen stove must be connec= ted in parallel, that could cause QRM with the XYL... ;-) But generally it= would be interesting!?=20 What is the maximum power that is applied to an antenna yet? What have you= heard yet? I have applied 1kW in a bad antenna (=3D> abt 100mW ERP), so= 10kW would be possible when considering to stay in the legal limit. 10kW= would be possible since one doesn't need a ferrite core that has to keep= the power (in Class E mode). In USA it would be even more easy due to the= fact that the 110V of the mains could just be rectified. Then I would tak= e some STW12NK90Z in parallel and a IXDD414 and try it with 15A an= tenna current ;-) Sorry, but in that hobby it is really easy to become euphoric... =20 73 and hope for fine qsos for us :-) Stefan / DK7FC =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA7D6D.E3900B19 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear LF, <= /p>

= I have done some further thoughts/questions about the "gain" between the qrs= s modes.

= If the "gain" or better said SNR between qrss30 and qrss3 is 10dB, so= can I do a QSO to VK with 1W TX Power and an antenna efficiency of 1/1000 if I choo= se QRSS10000000000? That’s a litte jokingly formulated but you know wha= t I mean. In other words, where are the limitations of this rule?

= In CW I think that rule cannot be valid because a dot in CW (say 20wpm) is much shorter= than 0,3s but to my experience the “gain” compared to qrss3 is not= even 10dB. Furthermore a PC must be seen as a source of QRM, especially when connecte= d to the antenna system (e.g. for switching a tx relay with the qrs-programm)= and RX (even when using a insulating transformer for the AF), and so it always br= ings a “negative gain”, even when one uses 10s of ferrite coresR= 30; =A0=A0

= And: I always thought of the energy "waste" when applying 1kW (before 6 yrs wh= en I became qrv with a much worse antenna) to the antenna and pumping 999,9W into the earth. But when I need 10x the time in qrss30 to do the qso with 100W, the needed energy is the same (compared to 1kW in qrss3). So, qsos could be do= ne much faster if choosing 10x the power and stay in qrss3. The additional advantage would be, if I try to do a TA QSO I could just stay in the regio= n of 137.7 and those who are qrv in qrss3 and only watch the qrss3-sector would= get a nice signal and thus more fascination for the LF-hobby (I often think ab= out the LWLs watching my transmission when no one is answering my call ;-)).= In sum, the needed energy (=3Dmoney) is the same but the needed time would be= 10x less.

= Of course, there would be some problems like partial discharges due to the high volta= ge at the antenna and for 10kW the kitchen stove must be connected in parallel,= that could cause QRM with the XYL... ;-) But generally it would be interesting!= ?

= What is the maximum power that is applied to an antenna yet? What have you heard yet?= I have applied 1kW in a bad antenna (=3D> abt 100mW ERP), so 10kW would= be possible when considering to stay in the legal limit. 10kW would be possib= le since one doesn't need a ferrite core that has to keep the power (in Class= E mode). In USA it would be even more easy due to the fact that the 110V of the mains could just be rectified. Then= I would take some STW12NK90Z in parallel and a IXDD414 and try it with 15A antenna current ;-)

= Sorry, but in that hobby it is really easy to become euphoric…

=  

= 73 and hope for fine qsos for us J

= Stefan / DK7FC

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01CA7D6D.E3900B19--