Return-Path: Received: from rly-df05.mx.aol.com (rly-df05.mail.aol.com [172.19.156.18]) by air-df04.mail.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id MAILINDF042-54c4accf2de375; Wed, 07 Oct 2009 15:58:43 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-df05.mx.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDF051-54c4accf2de375; Wed, 07 Oct 2009 15:58:24 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Mvcdw-000087-Bh for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2009 20:57:48 +0100 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Mvcdv-00007y-T6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2009 20:57:47 +0100 Received: from smtp820.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.189.247]) by relay3.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Mvcdk-0006zu-4O for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2009 20:57:38 +0100 Received: (qmail 12341 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2009 19:57:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=o6lvAvdxZRpfaXY3KySXMMoXVXCRJUGCgM6WCYMrnpEs7giSVwHV1C8cdij0olz770p2sIujtvAQOSIeluUCueJyKgDjb8Tyrnduh+QlUoxskKVyXNdcnrevk70NBeA5WQeoVpjpAE2gIGWjq2XkpOEVNMePyA9v/nsJYFAUQUA= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.179.130.177 with login) by smtp820.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Oct 2009 19:57:30 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: qKIhhNCswBB2TTHr2BORWcGGR2mpopxhCcunGIxpCKQYiG07Q7UOhNo- X-YMail-OSG: aJG6CLsVM1lvWEiy89J894wQoj42MBf7zOc449oJJpM3alOdl2hc1J3JKY6NQB_9GpJkH2s5miZxkd3mdx7Q5sBk0MstFcE63CZu8f0GrH10GXSUHIoqfK4xPAGGgSDfcHRpn8BtDzOyieUl.a.vf127CaOOi0Kbk4ksw8KfTnKkQavv6r.RFzbXE59F6bGElUMcN8U.e5OzvWAD2KdyCIukySRWBzcQV0z7w5myMoiBinrK8tKUnkmq_k4pwuMjcgcbf.YAxHJeBp1Q9Lr6loQL.yTExHQKhajfUs_6n.6OtmJKT_NkfJvhBTyFcMYdDIQ- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: From: "James Moritz" To: References: <57a24ca70910070818o2e4adde4k1c8daa318eb2eb30@mail.gmail.com> <006001ca4763$a69a1290$0301a8c0@mal769a60aa920> <002601ca4766$1ff29bb0$6c01a8c0@DELL4> <4ACCD7FA.5080501@ukonline.co.uk> <4ACCB110.8A4E.00FD.0@globalstar.com> In-Reply-To: <4ACCB110.8A4E.00FD.0@globalstar.com> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 20:57:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re Propagation report Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear David, LF Group, There are basically two ways of determining ERP, briefly: Method 1 is to calculate the radiation resistance (Rrad) of your antenna, which can be done using various text-book formulae, or using antenna simulation software like EZNEC or similar. Then you measure the RF current flowing in the antenna (Iant). The ERP is then Iant^2 x Rrad x 1.8 (1.8 is the directivity of electrically small vertical or loop antennas, which in practice is what all amateur 136kHz antennas are). Method 2 is to measure the field strength some km from the antenna. The ERP is then (E x d)^2 /49, where E is the field strength, d distance in metres. This requires a calibrated antenna and measuring receiver, so is more complicated to do. Method 1 is simpler to do, but yields ERP results that tend to be lower than those obtained by method 2. This is thought to be due to various combined environmental effects on the antenna, which are not accounted for in the simple calculation. So to get a more accurate and definitive figure, you need to do method 2, but as far as compliance with licence conditions is concerned, method 1 is a conservative way of checking. Good luck in your efforts! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- but From: "David Weinreich" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 8:17 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re Propagation report Peter, As an interested observer from the other side of the pond, how do you determine that you are close to the ERP limit?? I'd be interested in knowing as I am trying to do some pro-bono work for the ARRL on getting use of 137 kHz here in the USA. Tnx & 73, David Weinreich WA2VUJ/3