Return-Path: Received: from rly-dg01.mx.aol.com (rly-dg01.mail.aol.com [172.19.151.85]) by air-dg02.mail.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id MAILINDG021-5a24aa51ad419e; Mon, 07 Sep 2009 10:38:44 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-dg01.mx.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDG017-5a24aa51ad419e; Mon, 07 Sep 2009 10:38:28 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1MkfBf-00055E-59 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2009 15:27:19 +0100 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1MkfBZ-000555-KU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2009 15:27:14 +0100 Received: from blu0-omc1-s21.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.32]) by relay3.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1MkfBN-0006I3-Ja for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2009 15:27:03 +0100 Received: from BLU146-W13 ([65.55.116.7]) by blu0-omc1-s21.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 7 Sep 2009 07:26:55 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [117.12.237.195] From: Laurence BY3A-KL1X China To: Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 06:26:54 -0800 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: <0DC70E96227C4EC9BC7BAE8F482B7099@JimPC> <3A7882A6EA6F48CA92F0A32B5BF96535@JimPC> <516228955.1252269306.158883836.47093@mcgi29.rambler.ru> <227866042.1252271522.162474480.47434@mcgi37.rambler.ru> <504021971.1252281332.46912984.60539@mcgi67.rambler.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Sep 2009 14:26:55.0002 (UTC) FILETIME=[3FDE6FA0:01CA2FC7] X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_10_20=0.945,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_357e3c88-5cad-4d71-98b4-4eb413e4ed33_" Subject: RE: LF: Re: WSPR/Questions X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_357e3c88-5cad-4d71-98b4-4eb413e4ed33_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Jim - good work on the antennae - I love them Cherry pickers ! as= for 504 - I dont know as I havent looked into it very deeply and it must= be a common issue but even on the smallest near efficient antennae we see= tram lines; as you say and in my case they could be a mix of local artifa= cts - that wouldnt suprise me at all as I have 100 neighbors all within a= 100m horiz and vertical distance - but thankfully the antenna sits outsi= de a virtual Faraday cage as most of the reinforcing of the building is ho= lding and dumping the QRM inside the "box" - if I dont ground the coaxs= before entry the QRM sits over S9 plus - with it S4/5. =20 Im game for WOLF at any ones convienence and just cal'd the decoder using= the 30 over signal from 60/68.5/39kHz and moreover 10Mhz to tweek the ind= uctor and stab Osc in the R75. =20 Thanks for the signals - all very interesting. Long Haul - and Eu is defin= ately that, werent so good last night in general and I noticed more attenu= ation at LF/MF on the remote Alaskan receiver too. =20 =20 LaurenceTanggu Tianjin China =20 =20 > From: james.moritz@btopenworld.com > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:02:26 +0100 > Subject: LF: Re: WSPR/Questions >=20 > Dear Laurence, Roman, LF Group, >=20 > I shut the beacon down at 0446utc this morning. The frequency was 503.97= 5kHz=20 > as advertised. Thanks for the overnight reports, nice to see spots from= =20 > W1TAG again and from Russia for the first time. I transmitted in about= 75%=20 > of the 2 minute periods between about 1940 and 2050utc, but saw nothing= like=20 > a signal in the BY3 grabber, although the frequency seemed mostly clear.= =20 > Conditions were relatively noisy here with more QRN than the previous ni= ght. >=20 > The antenna is a top-loaded vertical with 3 wires in a sort of Y shape= in=20 > the horizontal plane. Where the wires meet, it is supported by a 10m=20 > fibreglass mast. To "jack up" the antenna, I have an old "cherry picker"= (or=20 > aerial access platform or whatever you wish to call it) which is slowly= =20 > sinking into my lawn. The bottom of the mast is bolted to the cherry pic= ker=20 > where the operator's basket used to be, so the whole mast can be raised= into=20 > the air. This allows a total maximum height of about 19m if I am feeling= =20 > brave; last night the middle of the antenna span was raised to about 17m= .=20 > Previous FS measurements have shown this gives about 3 - 4dB improvement= in=20 > ERP due to the increased height and radiation resistance, along with a= =20 > slight reduction in loss resistance. The total length of wire in the ant= enna=20 > stays the same, but gets further from the ground, so antenna capacitance= =20 > actually reduces slightly. The things we do to try and get a better=20 > signal... >=20 > Cross-band QSOs from M0BMU are unfortunately difficult at the moment due= to=20 > the high QRM levels on the lower HF bands here - I am hoping some work= on=20 > dedicated HF receiving antennas here will improve this soon. >=20 > The 504kHz signal seems to be present in many widely-seperated QTHs - do= n't=20 > know about W/VE though? It seems to be different at each location. Here= it=20 > is a rather weak carrier with no audible modulation, on the spectrogram= it=20 > can be seen to have a couple of stronger spectral lines and several weak= er=20 > ones spread over a range of a few Hz. These seem to vary over time, poss= ibly=20 > due to QSB. They can't all be RTE/Atlantic 252 harmonics - 504kHz is an= =20 > integer multiple of 9kHz, so many opportunities for internal or external= =20 > intermods due to broadcast stations. 504kHz is also a multiple of 8kHz,= as=20 > is 136kHz - it was suggested at one time that the weak carriers audible= in=20 > many places on 136.0kHz could be harmonics of the 8kHz clock rate used= in=20 > wired telecomms. >=20 > I would be quite interested to try WOLF again - although it needs more= =20 > careful coordination with frequencies than WSPR. >=20 > Roman, there are some pdf files on the UK 500kHz group site about some= of my=20 > LF/MF gear - you are welcome to use those if you like. >=20 > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU >=20 >=20 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to= on Facebook. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=3DPID23285::T:WLMTAG= L:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009=3D --_357e3c88-5cad-4d71-98b4-4eb413e4ed33_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Jim - good work on the antennae - I love them Cherry pickers= ! as for 504 - I dont know as I havent looked into it very deeply and it= must be a common issue but even on the smallest near efficient anten= nae we see tram lines; as you say and in my case they could be a mix= of local artifacts - that wouldnt suprise me at all as I have 100 neighbo= rs all within a 100m horiz and vertical distance -  but thankful= ly the antenna sits outside a virtual Faraday cage as most= of the reinforcing of the building is holding and dumping = the QRM inside the "box" - if I dont ground the coaxs before entry= the QRM sits over S9 plus - with it S4/5.
 
Im game for WOLF at any ones convienence and just cal'd the decoder u= sing the 30 over signal from 60/68.5/39kHz and moreover 10Mhz to tweek the= inductor and stab Osc in the R75.
 
Thanks for the signals - all very interesting. Long Haul - and Eu is defin= ately that, werent so good last night in general and I noticed more attenu= ation at LF/MF on the remote Alaskan receiver too.
 
 
LaurenceTanggu Tianjin China
 

 
> From: james.moritz@btopenworld.com
> To: rsgb_lf_= group@blacksheep.org
> Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:02:26 +0100
>= Subject: LF: Re: WSPR/Questions
>
> Dear Laurence, Roman, LF= Group,
>
> I shut the beacon down at 0446utc this morning.= The frequency was 503.975kHz
> as advertised. Thanks for the overn= ight reports, nice to see spots from
> W1TAG again and from Russia= for the first time. I transmitted in about 75%
> of the 2 minute= periods between about 1940 and 2050utc, but saw nothing like
> a= signal in the BY3 grabber, although the frequency seemed mostly clear. > Conditions were relatively noisy here with more QRN than the previo= us night.
>
> The antenna is a top-loaded vertical with 3 wir= es in a sort of Y shape in
> the horizontal plane. Where the wires= meet, it is supported by a 10m
> fibreglass mast. To "jack up" the= antenna, I have an old "cherry picker" (or
> aerial access platfor= m or whatever you wish to call it) which is slowly
> sinking into= my lawn. The bottom of the mast is bolted to the cherry picker
>= where the operator's basket used to be, so the whole mast can be raised= into
> the air. This allows a total maximum height of about 19m if= I am feeling
> brave; last night the middle of the antenna span wa= s raised to about 17m.
> Previous FS measurements have shown this= gives about 3 - 4dB improvement in
> ERP due to the increased heig= ht and radiation resistance, along with a
> slight reduction in los= s resistance. The total length of wire in the antenna
> stays the= same, but gets further from the ground, so antenna capacitance
>= actually reduces slightly. The things we do to try and get a better
&= gt; signal...
>
> Cross-band QSOs from M0BMU are unfortunatel= y difficult at the moment due to
> the high QRM levels on the lower= HF bands here - I am hoping some work on
> dedicated HF receiving= antennas here will improve this soon.
>
> The 504kHz signal= seems to be present in many widely-seperated QTHs - don't
> know= about W/VE though? It seems to be different at each location. Here it > is a rather weak carrier with no audible modulation, on the spectrog= ram it
> can be seen to have a couple of stronger spectral lines an= d several weaker
> ones spread over a range of a few Hz. These seem= to vary over time, possibly
> due to QSB. They can't all be RTE/At= lantic 252 harmonics - 504kHz is an
> integer multiple of 9kHz, so= many opportunities for internal or external
> intermods due to bro= adcast stations. 504kHz is also a multiple of 8kHz, as
> is 136kHz= - it was suggested at one time that the weak carriers audible in
>= many places on 136.0kHz could be harmonics of the 8kHz clock rate used in=
> wired telecomms.
>
> I would be quite interested to= try WOLF again - although it needs more
> careful coordination wit= h frequencies than WSPR.
>
> Roman, there are some pdf files= on the UK 500kHz group site about some of my
> LF/MF gear - you ar= e welcome to use those if you like.
>
> Cheers, Jim Moritz> 73 de M0BMU
>
>

Windows Live: Make it= easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on Facebook. Find out more. =3D --_357e3c88-5cad-4d71-98b4-4eb413e4ed33_--