Return-Path: Received: from rly-df03.mx.aol.com (rly-df03.mail.aol.com [172.19.156.16]) by air-df08.mail.aol.com (v124.15) with ESMTP id MAILINDF083-53e4a57dba6261; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:24:28 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-df03.mx.aol.com (v124.15) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDF037-53e4a57dba6261; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:24:09 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1MPQMw-0006gS-9a for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 11 Jul 2009 01:23:10 +0100 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1MPQMv-0006gJ-Mx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 11 Jul 2009 01:23:09 +0100 Received: from smtp816.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([77.238.189.16]) by relay3.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1MPQMp-0002bM-Fs for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 11 Jul 2009 01:23:08 +0100 Received: (qmail 98249 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2009 00:22:56 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=jq2z0UNudprLuLtWn+M+tKpMo1ONw27ZmKWEwWUmb4sAxt/PgvFqZLDP1UV13Tq7LE+eefBOOctA0TBtoKTaS1EtRs57rq8TVrE9QGuoinHg0FCtiR50yMXIVWqEqJnTZnJJrNkPGMm067i3j46QlP7WVZgHWS6PxoGyfunsuYQ= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.177.107.213 with login) by smtp816.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2009 00:22:56 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: qKIhhNCswBB2TTHr2BORWcGGR2mpopxhCcunGIxpCKQYiG07Q7UOhNo- X-YMail-OSG: IARaZe4VM1l231Lpo40rNyntyFOj_JA.oD.evjFma9tUGSwHOWPttaxYscBiKMwyH5p4ToNWd1CJjUH0MI98vyF6ho8iobOz2YTCH4uTyz80oO5MdAK7gdVv1iLVfMhNigRMG8vTbnP7zWH7A6sVgyBFxXJYXuqK6ZzHstnMXfhWnCbv_3PdtvgWBtDY_VGf5MvNGi37Nkx5YNZXQwUx2EPtsTaZsfZn1GTBU459.QJfqrK7jGqFLwb.zXrbLUi9IEfmcOexiy4Q1UVkCpmCXSfHXXALDaJzYmnrHmzXT9Rvjjf7qT8H X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: From: "James Moritz" To: References: <8bf118410907100011s696aa712sbd88bd3a023e1c39@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <8bf118410907100011s696aa712sbd88bd3a023e1c39@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 01:22:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Forthcoming GPS jamming exercises Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear Dave, LF Group, G3YXM wrote: >Perhaps we should encourage a Loran jamming excercise to prove that it isn't the un-jammable marvel that its cracked up to be? ;-) It's interesting to speculate about possible GPS and Loran jamming devices. One sees "hand-held GPS jammers" mentioned on the internet - the GPS signal strength is perhaps a few uV/m at ground level, and the signal is a noise-like pseudo-random sequence, so a low power, noise generating "barrage" jamming device that swamped the GPS signal would probably be feasible over a line-of-sight area. On the other hand, Loran produces signal strengths of millivolts/m, so something like a million times as much jamming ERP would be needed, compounded by the low efficiency of feasible clandestine 100kHz jammer antennas. Another antenna-related problem would be the 10kHz or so bandwidth of the Loran signal, which presents a problem even with full-sized Loran antennas. In current Loran transmitters, the antenna itself forms part of the 100kHz pulse generator, which uses thyristors to discharge capacitors into a pulse-forming network incorporating the antenna - I guess some similar technique would be needed for the jammer so that power consumption did not become too enormous. Then there are "counter-countermeasures". It seems that anti-jamming GPS receivers for the military etc rely mostly on multiple RX antennas and front ends, and DSP-based beam-forming to reject signals that are not coming from the expected direction of a satellite. This probably isn't workable for Loran, due to the large spacing that would be needed between antennas at LF. But Loran has a precise time and phase relationship betweeen the pulse patterns making up the signal, and is designed to work with signals from multiple sources in the same channel, along with CW interference, so attempting to "spoof" a reasonably sophisticated Loran receiver would also need a sophisticated jammer. I don't doubt it would be possible to construct an effective Loran jammer, but it would probably not be hand-held! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU