Return-Path: Received: from rly-mg05.mx.aol.com (rly-mg05.mail.aol.com [172.20.83.111]) by air-mg09.mail.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMG091-a114a25d812225; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:55:45 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-mg05.mx.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMG053-a114a25d812225; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:55:33 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1MBfgo-0002nx-NZ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 02:54:50 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1MBfgo-0002no-1r for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 02:54:50 +0100 Received: from blu0-omc1-s18.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.29]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1MBfgl-0002Pf-Hd for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 02:54:49 +0100 Received: from BLU146-W33 ([65.55.116.7]) by blu0-omc1-s18.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 2 Jun 2009 18:54:42 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [138.32.244.2] From: Laurence BY3A-KL1X China To: Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 17:54:41 -0800 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4A259D8C.6090603@ukonline.co.uk> References: <365C02722DD64F70B7C17A3A18F5978E@JimPC> <4A259D8C.6090603@ukonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jun 2009 01:54:42.0151 (UTC) FILETIME=[42EFE770:01C9E3EE] X-Karma: unknown: X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_10_20=0.945,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_e601f7b9-0bc9-473c-872c-da712c945c30_" Subject: RE: LF: 136k/500k Grounding experiments (long!) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_e601f7b9-0bc9-473c-872c-da712c945c30_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 My experiences in a surburban set up (Bartlesville OK second QTH) are the s= ame as Peters and others - some nice long 8ft earth rods spread out and abou= t did most of the work, however empirically my QTH in Alaska (glacial morrai= ne/clay and till) this did not work as well and I ended up with a large numb= er of sort radials every few degress some 40m long (mostly for 80/160 gotta=20= say), and a large earth mat of galvanised chicken wire covering an area of s= ome 200ft x 100ft all interlaced. I know it rots but it worked well for a ye= ar. =20 In real terms, just with the sole aim at the time of increasing antennae cur= rent, it was diminshing returns over the amount of effort/cost, and I seem t= o recall I managed 21 ohms loss, most of which Im sure was environmental as=20= I was in a cut out in Kincaid Park forest. =20 Looking back and what I know now I would have changes a few things in the a= ntennae feed and earthing/matching arrangements too. =20 When I left AK I pulled up (with some mechanical assistance) sections of the= galvanised mesh a length at a time and retuned and sure enough the losses i= ncreased but very slowly... =20 I did try 4 full size radials for 137kHz - all untuned and it did zip/nothin= g to improve the situation. =20 I did try earthing using a 200ft vertical well casing and this gave the exac= t same antennae current as all the above. I didnt have a bridge at the time=20= but which I had. =20 Gotta say its every location is different and works well in some seems poor=20= in others, but the general rule of as much in the air as high as possible, a= way from lossy objects, and as much in the ground seems a reasonable assumpt= ion, though Im now a little more concerned and thoughful about the reactance= s involved and voltages present on them insulated radials now after reading=20= Jims notes. =20 I dont think Ill have to same problem back in AK in a few days as its got to= be a loop, again over glacial overlay/till and some larger rocks...Im more=20= concerned over the fire hazard as its very very dry at the moment and a burn= ban in effect. =20 Thanks for the work - all very thought provoking.... =20 Laurence BY3A KL1X Teda China OM89UA =20 _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE.=20 http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tuto= rial_QuickAdd_062009=3D --_e601f7b9-0bc9-473c-872c-da712c945c30_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
My experiences in a surburban set up (Bartlesville  OK second QTH) are=20= the same as Peters and others - some nice long 8ft earth rods spread out and= about did most of the work, however empirically my QTH in Alaska (glacial m= orraine/clay and till) this did not work as well and I ended up with a large= number of sort radials every few degress some 40m long (mostly for 80/160 g= otta say), and a large earth mat of galvanised chicken wire covering an area= of some 200ft x 100ft all interlaced. I know it rots but it worked well for= a year.
 
In real terms, just with the sole aim at the time of increasing antenna= e current, it was diminshing returns over the amount of effort/cost, and I s= eem to recall I managed 21 ohms loss, most of which Im sure was environmenta= l as I was in a cut out in Kincaid Park forest.
 
 Looking back and what I know now I would have changes a few things in=20= the antennae feed and earthing/matching arrangements too.
 
When I left AK I pulled up (with some mechanical assistance) sections o= f the galvanised mesh a length at a time and retuned and sure enough the los= ses increased but very slowly...
 
I did try 4 full size radials for 137kHz - all untuned and it did=20= zip/nothing to improve the situation.
 
I did try earthing using a 200ft vertical well casing and this gave the exac= t same antennae current as all the above. I didnt have a bridge at the time=20= but which I had.
 
Gotta say its every location is different and works well in some seems poor=20= in others, but the general rule of as much in the air as high as possible, a= way from lossy objects, and as much in the ground seems a reasonable assumpt= ion, though Im now a little more concerned and thoughful about the reactance= s involved and voltages present on them insulated radials now after reading=20= Jims notes.
 
I dont think Ill have to same problem back in AK in a few days as its got to= be a loop, again over glacial overlay/till and some larger rocks...Im more=20= concerned over the fire hazard as its very very dry at the moment and a burn= ban in effect.
 
Thanks for the work - all very thought provoking....
 
Laurence BY3A KL1X
Teda China OM89UA
 

Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail= =AE. See how. =3D --_e601f7b9-0bc9-473c-872c-da712c945c30_--