Return-Path: Received: from rly-md08.mx.aol.com (rly-md08.mail.aol.com [172.20.29.146]) by air-md01.mail.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMD011-91d4a259a7058; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:33:01 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-md08.mx.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMD085-91d4a259a7058; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:32:35 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1MBbZt-0001wp-P5 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:31:25 +0100 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1MBbZt-0001wg-2l for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:31:25 +0100 Received: from smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net ([212.135.6.14]) by relay3.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1MBbZr-0002yO-6h for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:31:25 +0100 Received: from bb-87-82-27-107.ukonline.co.uk ([87.82.27.107] helo=[192.168.0.3]) by smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 1MBbZp-000ANu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:31:21 +0100 Message-ID: <4A259D8C.6090603@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:45:48 +0100 From: Peter Dodd User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <365C02722DD64F70B7C17A3A18F5978E@JimPC> In-Reply-To: <365C02722DD64F70B7C17A3A18F5978E@JimPC> X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.236 Subject: Re: LF: 136k/500k Grounding experiments (long!) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) A very interesting set of experiments Jim. I also found that long copper rods driven into the found as deep as you can get them worked best for 73 and 136kHz and that radials in a suburban environment were not much good at all. However, I did some experiments on 73kHz at Amberley museum some years ago. This QTH was once a chalk quarry and I found it impossible to get a ground stake earth in chalk to work. I finished up using a single counterpoise 300m long just lying on the ground. To get it to work I used a loading coil just like the one used for the antenna itself, which was also about 300m long strung across the a valley created by the mining activity. Both coils and the matching transformer were adjusted for maximum antenna current. Interestingly, a Tesla coil group set up a series of serious Tesla coils at the museum for a demonstration and they had make a buried earth mat arrangement for the large coils. The largest one, which gave spark discharge over a metre long was driven by a RF arrangement at 70kHz. I checked the signal using the TS850 with a short antenna in my vehicle located around 80m distant from the coil - and heard nothing. This surprised me - I was expecting a very large signal. Regards Peter, G3LDO > Over the last few days I have been doing some experiments with ground > systems with my LF/MF antenna. The purpose was partly to see whether > it is possible to reduce the overall loss resistance significantly, > but also to test out some convenient types of ground for antennas for > portable operation, in particular radial wires. The antenna is > currently a top-loaded vertical about 10m high, with about 80m in > total of horizontal wires in a narrow, asymmetrical "Y" shape about > 50m long, giving a capacitance at 136k of around 500pF, and around > 580pF at at 500k due to the increased effect of the distributed > inductance of the wires. As a reference, I used the normal ground > system, consisting of 6 x 1m ground rods, distributed within a couple > of metres of the base of the antenna tuners. > > The measuring technique was to initially set the normal series loading > coils to resonance at 136kHz and 502khz with the normal ground system, > and then measure the antenna resistance between the "cold" end of the > loading coil and ground with an RF bridge. The total loss resistance > of the antenna (including the loading coils and the normal ground > system) was 57ohms at 136k and 24ohms at 502k. Then an alternative > ground system was connected instead of the normal ground, the bridge > re-tuned to measure the new resistance, and any change in reactance > determined from the change in resonant frequency. The reactance > measurement is only approximate, but good enough for these purposes. > The bridge equipment was all battery operated, and sat on a wooden > table, so had minimal effect on the impedance of the ground system. > When I set up a similar antenna with similar ground rods in a field a > while back, the loss resistance of the antenna was only about 8 ohms > in total, so the component of the loss resistance due to the normal > ground system is probably less than 8 ohms. The much higher total loss > resistance is due mostly to the environmental factors affecting the > antenna. > > I first tried combinations of insulated radial wires laid on the > ground, including 4 x 20m radials, 4 x 40m radials and 8 x 20m > radials. It did not seem to matter much how the radials were laid out, > whether underneath the top load wires or in completely different > directions. Some had bends or doubled back - there is not really room > at my QTH for 40m radials! Some were laid on the grass, others along > the concrete driveway that runs down one side of the plot. None of > this made more than a few ohms difference to the loss resistance, > provided the wires were reasonably well spaced apart. All > configurations had significant capacitive reactance compared to the > normal ground rods: > > 4 x 20m radials, 136k: R = 80ohm , X = -j466ohms > 4x 20m radials, 502k: R = 28ohm, X = -j113ohms > > 4x 40m radials, 136k: R = 66ohms, X = -j248ohms > 4 x 40m radials, 502k, R = 25ohms, X = -j61ohms > > 8 x 20m radials, 136k: R = 62ohms, X = -j283ohms > 8 x 20m radials, 502k: R = 23ohms, X = -j76ohms > > So it would seem that having the total of 160m of wire as 8 shorter > radials is slightly better than 4 longer ones as far a loss goes. I > also tried elevating the radials above ground about 0.3m on lengths of > cane: > > 8 x 20m radials, elevated, 136k: R = 80ohms, X = -j622ohms > 8 x 20m radials, elevated, 502k: R = 23ohms, X = -j158ohms > > The loss resistance at 502kHz is slightly reduced, but the extra > capacitive reactance is now getting very high, especially at 136k. I > tried adding a "metallic" ground connection by adding a 200mm long > steel tent peg to the end of each radial, and driving it into the ground: > > 8 x 20m radial + ground spike, 136k: R = 80ohms, X = 0 > 8 x 20m radial + ground spike, 502k: R = 69ohms, X = -j11ohms > > So this is effective at reducing the reactance, but does not help loss > resistance; in fact, it leads to a drastic increase in loss at 502k. > > Instead of insulated radials, I tried a 15m x 0.6m strip of wire mesh > (a roll of chicken wire that was lying around), held down flat on the > grass with bricks: > > 15m x 0.6m wire mesh, 136k: R = 82ohms, X = -j102ohms > 15m x 0.6m wire mesh, 502k: R = 31ohms, X = -j9ohms > > So in spite of having a large area of metal in reasonable contact > with the ground, there is still relatively high resistance, and some > capacitive reactance. Since the insulated radials in general resulted > in lower loss resistance, I tried insulating the wire mesh from the > ground using polythene sheet: > > 15m x 0.6m wire mesh, insulated, 136k: R = 65ohms, X = -j320ohms > 15m x 0.6m wire mesh, insulated, 502k: R = 26ohms, X = -j63ohms > > Since the wire mesh would be quite a convenient earth system to use > for an antenna over a paved area, or on rocky ground, I tried laying > it on the concrete driveway: > > 15m x 0.6m wire mesh, on concrete, 136k: R = 57 ohms, X = -j320ohms > 15m x 0.6m wire mesh, on concrete, 502k: R = 23 ohms, X = -j65ohms > > The loss resistance is now as low as the normal ground rod system, > although the reactance is higher. > > Looking at these results, the ground rods win for the fixed station > antenna. The ground here is a permanently wet clay soil, which is > probably quite good for ground rods. They give practically the lowest > loss resistance (a couple of the other ground systems give a > marginally lower loss resistance at 502k, but in practice the actual > resonant frequency was increased due to the additional reactance, and > the loss resistance of the antenna decreases at higher frequency). The > reactance is also lower. Most of the alternative ground systems > effectively behave as capacitive coupling to ground, with significant > capacitive reactance as well as some additional loss resistance. For > the fixed station, if the ground system has a high reactance, most of > the ground current will flow through the lower impedance path via TX > chassis/mains earth, instead of the ground system. This is possibly > why adding ground radials to an existing system often has no effect. > One way round this would be to have an auxilliary tuning inductor > connected between the ATU ground, and the ground radial sytem. You > could tune the inductor for maximum RF current in the radials, or > minimum current via the TX ground. > > For portable antennas, it is often difficult to drive long ground rods > into the earth. It seems that short ground spikes, like the tent pegs, > or metallic conductors laid on the surface of the ground, do not make > a very good ground connection. The insulated radial wire systems > generally give the lower loss resistances for the antenna system, and > are quite easy to set up. The effect of the unwanted ground system > reactance for a portable station with no other earth connection is > that the ground terminal of the ATU is not at ground potential, and so > probably also the cases of all the station equipment. For 500kHz > stations with fairly low power (say <1A antenna current or so), where > reactance is quite low, this probably does not matter much so long as > the equipment (and operator) are reasonably well insulated from > ground. For a QRO 136kHz station, it is likely to be a different story > - with 1kW I can get about 4A antenna current - if I was using the 8 x > 20m radials, the 283ohms reactance would mean the equipment ground > would have more than 1kV of RF relative to ground! The capacitance of > the insulated radials works out very roughly to 28pF per metre of > wire, and one wants to make the total capacitance large enough to keep > the voltage down to a reasonable level. More and longer radials would > clearly be desirable, which are not really feasible in my garden, but > might be quite easy at a /P location. > > The insulated wire mesh ground required less area than the radial > wires, and had low loss resistance with similar reactance, so could be > quite promising, especially where the ground is already insulated; on > concrete or tarmac for example. > > Hopefully some time this summer, I will be able to borrow a field > again, and do some further experiments with more space available. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > > > > > > > > >