Return-Path: Received: from rly-mg10.mx.aol.com (rly-mg10.mail.aol.com [172.20.83.116]) by air-mg06.mail.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMG061-a3d4a1fd1f2311; Fri, 29 May 2009 08:16:09 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-mg10.mx.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMG107-a3d4a1fd1f2311; Fri, 29 May 2009 08:15:49 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1MA0z2-0004jP-TX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 May 2009 13:14:48 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1MA0z2-0004jG-Bj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 May 2009 13:14:48 +0100 Received: from cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1MA0yz-0007A4-Om for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 May 2009 13:14:47 +0100 Received: from smtps02.kuleuven.be (smtpshost02.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.75]) by cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30CCF7B8046 for ; Fri, 29 May 2009 14:14:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from PC_van_Rik.fys.kuleuven.be (dhcp-10-33-85-106.fys.kuleuven.be [10.33.85.106]) by smtps02.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 120FDF3862 for ; Fri, 29 May 2009 14:14:37 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 14:14:38 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20090529121437.120FDF3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Karma: unknown: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: modeling a loop Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear all, confronted with the seasonal rise of the loss resistance of my 500kHz antenna (from 35 Ohm in winter to 80 Ohm in summer) I would eventually consider to try a loop antenna. Dimensions of the loop would be limited to "closing" the existing lazy L-antenna that is 11m high and 22m long. One of the reasons for considering a loop is the fact that the radiation resistance of a loop raises with the 4th power of the frequency (for a Marconi antenna this is only 2nd power). So, comparing 502kHz to 137kHz, in theory the radiation resistance of a vertical improves by a factor of 13 (11dB). For a loop it is a factor of 180 (22.5dB). When I model a 11m high and 22m long lazy-L antenna (using MMANA-GAL) the modeling result seem to agree with theory: 0.027 Ohm at 137kHz and 0.359 Ohm at 502kHz. But when I model a 10.5m high and 22m long loop, 0.5m above ground: - 0.0013 Ohm at 137kHz and 0.033 Ohm at 502kHz, a ratio of only 25 instead of the expected 180 - very different from the theoretical values: 0.00007 Ohm at 137kHz and 0.013 Ohm at 502kHz - modeling in free space at 502kHz confirms the theoretical 0.013 Ohm, but at 137kHz even in free space it is 0.0012 Ohm. If the claim that loop losses are not affected by the ground I would expect that the radiation resistance is not affected either. I guess MMANA-GAL is not suited for modeling very small loops, is there other software that can scope with this ? Before going into the effort of putting op the loop I would like to have an idea of what to expect. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T