Message-id: <4A11BD1B67394BDD9B3001D8F176B76F@DR2>
From: "dave.riley3" <dave.riley3@verizon.net>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>, <andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com>
References: <fc7eccec0902260816u68aa7394lc2adc64e2440b62e@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:53:14 -0500
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Subject: LF: Re: LF Antennas - back to basics
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Glad you asked, Andy...  Hope this one makes it past the spam filter...

Back in the commercial AM transmitter biz days I buried miles of extra 
copper in to poor conductivity soil and gained little or nothing.
Then came Bill Ashloop who proved that a small transmit loop can do quite 
well.
http://www.wireless.org.uk/loopy.htm
http://www.w1tag.com/XESANT.htm

So I surveryed the back yard which sits on very poor conductivity soil and 
therefore makes a loop appear to me more in free space and here are the 
advantages that I have found to date:

No high voltage wire ends to start tree fires. No wasted power going into 
and out of the ground...

Much less wire used in a LOOP transmit antenna. This #4 stranded HV wire 
rests inside of 100' sections of garden hose and is hoisted into trees with 
help of compound bow and pull line.

No top loading, no radials, much less noise on RX, E-Z to tune and weather 
does not affect the tuning much such as from rain or snow, and it acts like 
a good vertical regardless of being much simpler.

As for the CONS, well I just don't think of any...  Somebody??

It works very well from 600M to 6M and is the only real antenna that I still 
have.

Various feeds as noted below will let you tune it down to SAQ@17kc which I 
always hear and also makes for superb DX on 6M in 'some directions'.

ref: http://www.radiocom.net/600M/LOOP109.jpg

Wish I had a El-Nec printout but can't seem to fit this version in to it.

QSL SURE VIA E-MAIL
090226 0406   1 -29  0.0   0.503869  G4JNT IO90 23
090226 0610   3 -29  0.0   0.503869  G4JNT IO90 23

Have a quiet night and TNX from Dave @ WD2XSH/17








----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andy Talbot" <andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:16 AM
Subject: LF: LF Antennas - back to basics


> Having now been encouraged by being decoded now by at least two US
> stations,  was wondering how much improvement in efficiency I could
> scrape out of my existing antenna.  It is a Marconi Tee, the vertical
> element consisting of three wires from the base tapering to 200mm
> spacing at the top.  There it is attached to the centre of a a
> capacity hat 15m long and 200mm wide made of three parallel wires.
>
> The ground system is a bit haphazard in my 7m wide by 12m long garden,
> with about 4 wires meeting at the base of the antenna meandering
> around the garden, starting off in different directions from teh base.
> They are all connected to substantial ground rods in heavy clay  at
> their far points, a with a few randomly spaced rods in between (I used
> several 1m lengths of 15mm water pipe as well as proper rods - there
> is probably about 9 or 10 rods in total, mostly 1 - 2m in length -
> can't remember that far back!   Some of the earth conductors were also
> bonded to the house wiring by a couple of substantial straps, and even
> inside the house I added more straps at strategic places.   I also
> ensured there was a good fat cable run directly under as much of the
> capacity hat as possible.   As a test, disconnecting the PME earthing
> bond and measuring the DC resistance between my total set of
> connections and the incoming conductor ground/neutral point, the value
> was a pretty consistent 3 ohms.  Haven't done this test for a few
> years, but at the last check it was still of this order.
>
> Back in the 73kHz days a number of (mostly big!) stations were
> surprised my signal was as strong as it was for probably the smallest
> antenna in use then; G3LDO put it down to the fact I had concentrated
> plenty of earthing wire to run directly under the top-hat.
>
> But, its all 14 years old,  still OK, but hopefully there's a wealth
> of experience now, and I wonder if there are obvious improvements that
> could be made:
>
> Firstly, bearing in mind there is no scope whatsoever to raise one end
> of the capacity hat which is defined by the apex of the house roof,
> and the other end would also need some major sugery to raise its heigh
> substantially, that only leaves the middle, ie the height of the
> actual radiator.    It wouldn't be too difficult to raise this to 10m
> or even more with a fibreglass pole, but will I be throwing away all
> the advantage by having the top-hat drooping down to 7m?
>
> Secondly, pictures of other peoples antennas aften show a substantial
> grounding plate immediately under and around the antenna base.  Just
> how far out is is worth going with a really substantial base.   I
> could cut more conductors into the ground; while the ground is still
> is still soggy in March may be a good time to do this.
>
> Any ideas please ...?
>
>
> Andy  G4JNT
> www.g4jnt.com
>