Return-Path: Received: from rly-dc07.mx.aol.com (rly-dc07.mail.aol.com [172.19.136.36]) by air-dc02.mail.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDC022-b2f4962886928; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:23:57 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-dc07.mx.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDC073-b2f4962886928; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:23:40 -0500 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1LJxqg-0007d7-DO for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:23:02 +0000 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1LJxqf-0007cy-Jo for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:23:01 +0000 Received: from smtp808.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.68]) by relay3.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LJxqd-0004XJ-VY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:23:01 +0000 Received: (qmail 92690 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2009 22:22:54 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:In-Reply-To:Importance; b=CO318oBsFOX4Indowna0cRje0vy81FK+bhzJW6fUNAsXESCdFHYzsoC5S/6DFs5a/U77wtqsq1TvqTBf7Ey/WoHLTgSjhp1mOsEQR/ROnsA90jPYioCt+pT8eo7SRfr3EjW6QKywE+tfC580tIq510N9J+Bv4CYqaIvA7rfuvTU= ; Received: from unknown (HELO aquarids) (ganymede444@86.134.206.141 with login) by smtp808.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2009 22:22:53 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: dWPVY6oVM1lilpzXkg_LhfltCkQvx_D3n6lMj8a63ymyeuIaSc.3JW8bEgdkRCbxebwwUDQnL94Sq9uwdj9EfmoW3NwPLHlwDQYggrrBi7lYBIYPTPNiI_GGT4_tjCYXF9yszmJ9y79gpQ9xjz7ivJTmtQ5VnS6aVyOBi.fOQIC9DsrKMJRHYtdFNr.TZ3orcHRowguaTNVh_bhWF378ypyamcQ- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Dave G3WCB" To: Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 22:22:55 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1914 In-Reply-To: <119030.30938.qm@web28104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: RE: LF: Re: Silent majority Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01C96F84.27C2BDD0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.5 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_20_30, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C96F84.27C2BDD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear LF,=20 Geri DK8KW and Markus did some interesting slow-voice experiments on 137 kHz= a few years back.=20 Definitely not a DX-mode, and a bit of a bandwidth-gobbler too ;-) Follow the link below:-=20 http://www.qru.de/slowvoice.html 73, Dave G3WCB IO91RM -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org]On Behalf Of M0FMT Sent: 05 January 2009 02:37 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Silent majority Hi LF Since by general consent the 600m band is now wide open for experime= ntation of whatever computer aided mode that can be down loaded for free off= the Internet. Might I suggest the use of SSTV. They say a picture is worth=20= a 1000 words. I have thousands of holiday snaps I would like to share with t= he world by way of a 24/7 beaconing experiment. The result may be a bit mor= e interesting than the shopping lists of stations worked, equipment lists an= d rig specifications that get churned out ad nauseam over the weekends. I am not sure what my afore mentioned local Amateur Radio 600m op fr= iends would feel being only a few miles away from my QTH. No, the above suggestion is ridiculous. It does however, Einstein, P= lanck et al withstanding, beg the question; what is a suitable maximum bandw= idth for the development of new modes on our British 3Kc/s 600m band? I wil= l start the ball rolling by saying a BW no more than 50c/s. G3PLX managed wi= th less than 32c/s BW. Since there is a QSB / QRN issue on this band then ha= nd shaking could be introduced to ensure error free data transfer a bit like= X25 slow but sure yet confined in a very narrow bandwidth say 50c/s max. W= e need to think outside the box and not try to shoe horn unsuitable modes on= to 600m. To evoke names like Planck and co with all due respect to Alberto (= who I admire immensely for his great innovations with DSP, SDR, FFT processi= ng software) I think, is over the top. Nobody is into book burning and deni= al of spectrum to impede progress but we only have 3kc/s to play with here i= n the UK. I consider myself a =E2=80=9Cgrunt=E2=80=9D operator not a highfl= ying =E2=80=9CEinstein=E2=80=9D radio spectrum quantum mechanic, but I would= hope we are trying to do more with less and I don=E2=80=99t think Olivia is= the answer. Whatever modes are proposed and developed, I would expect one o= f the cardinal points in their specification, along with very narrow BW, to=20= be compatibility with adjacent modes like CW and the effect on adjacent stat= ions not running that particular mode. In the mean time I am hoping to improve my manual CW skills assuming= there are any stations still interested in that form of error correcting na= rrow band data transfer and are still prepared to QSO with me. Now retreating into my cave with my knuckles dragging along the grou= nd. Vy 73 petefmt --- On Mon, 5/1/09, Alberto di Bene wrote: From: Alberto di Bene Subject: LF: Re: Silent majority To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 5 January, 2009, 12:05 AM Steve McDonald wrote: >> There is virtually nothing new to discover or invent that has not already >> taken place on MF. >=20 > There you go guys. You may as well stop your 600m experiments right now as > Mal has proclaimed that there is "nothing new to discover". Wouldn't it be > wonderful if we could all see the future as clearly as he apparently does. > What an amazing gift. >=20 > VE7SL / Steve This reminds me what Max Planck did write at the beginning of past century. At the turn of the 20th century scientists were absolutely certain that ther= e was nothing more to be discovered in theoretical physics. Max Planck, recalling the mood of optimism and conviction at that time, wrot= e: =E2=80=9CWhen I began my physical studies [in Munich in 1874] and sought adv= ice from my venerable teacher Phillipp von Jolly... he portrayed to me physics as a highly developed almost fully matured science... Possibly in one or another nook there would perhaps be a dust particle or a small bubble to be examined and classified, but the system as a whole stood there fairly secured, and theoretical physics approached visibly that degree of perfection which, for example, geometry has had already for centuries=E2=80=9D. The history of physics during the 20th century did show how dumb was that point of view... 73 Alberto I2PHD =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C96F84.27C2BDD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear=20 LF,
 
Geri=20 DK8KW and Markus did some interesting slow-voice experiments on 137 kHz a fe= w=20 years back.
 
Definitely not a DX-mode, and a bit of a bandwidth-gobbler=20 too ;-)
 
Follow=20 the link below:-=20
 
 
73,=20 Dave G3WCB IO91RM
 = ;
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of=20 M0FMT
Sent: 05 January 2009 02:37
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Silent=20 majority

Hi LF

Since by general consent the 600m band is now wide o= pen for=20 experimentation of whatever computer aided mode that can be down loa= ded=20 for free off the Internet. Might I suggest the use of SSTV. They say= a=20 picture is worth a 1000 words. I have thousands of holiday snaps I w= ould=20 like to share with the world by way of a 24/7 beaconing experiment.<= SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">  The result may be a= bit more=20 interesting than the shopping lists of stations worked, equipment li= sts=20 and rig specifications that get churned out ad=20 nauseam over the weekends.

I am not sure what my afore mentioned local Amateur=20= Radio 600m op=20 friends would feel being only a few miles away from my QTH.

No, the above suggestion is ridiculous. It do= es however,=20 Einstein, Planck et al withstanding, beg the question; what is a=20 suitable maximum bandwidth for the development of new modes on our=20 British 3Kc/s 600m band?  I=20 will start the ball rolling by saying a BW no more than 50c/s. G3PLX= =20 managed with less than 32c/s BW. Since there is a QSB / QRN issue on= =20 this band then hand shaking could be introduced to ensure error free= =20 data transfer a bit like X25 slow but sure yet confined in a very na= rrow=20 bandwidth say 50c/s max.  We=20 need to think outside the box and not try to shoe horn unsuitable mo= des=20 onto 600m. To evoke names like Planck and co with all due respect to= =20 Alberto (who I admire immensely for his great innovations with DSP,=20= SDR,=20 FFT processing software) I think,  is over the top. Nobody is into=20 book burning and denial of spectrum to impede progress but we only h= ave=20 3kc/s to play with here in the UK.  I consider myself a =E2=80=9Cgrunt=E2=80=9D=20 operator not a highflying =E2=80=9CEinstein=E2=80=9D radio spectrum=20= quantum mechanic,=20 but I would hope we are trying to do more with less and I don=E2=80= =99t think=20 Olivia is the answer. Whatever modes are proposed and developed, I w= ould=20 expect one of the cardinal points in their specification, along with= =20 very narrow BW, to be compatibility with adjacent modes like CW and=20= the=20 effect on adjacent stations not running that particular mode.

In the mean time I am hoping to improve my manual CW= skills=20 assuming there are any stations still interested in that form of err= or=20 correcting narrow band data transfer and are still prepared to QSO w= ith=20 me.

Now retreating into my cave with my knuckles draggin= g along the=20 ground.

Vy 73 petefmt



--- On Mon, 5/1/09, Alberto di Bene=20 <dibene@usa.net> wrote:
From:=20 Alberto di Bene <dibene@usa.net>
Subject: LF: Re: Silent=20 majority
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Monday, 5=20 January, 2009, 12:05 AM

Steve McDonald wrote:
>> There is virtually nothing new to discover or invent that has not
already
>> taken place on MF.
>=20
> There you go guys. You may as well stop your 600m experiments right now=
 as
> Mal has proclaimed that there is "nothing new to discover".
Wouldn't it be
> wonderful if we could all see the future as clearly as he apparently do=
es.
> What an amazing gift.
>=20
> VE7SL / Steve

This reminds me what Max Planck did write at the beginning of past century.
At the turn of the 20th century scientists were absolutely certain that ther=
e
was nothing more to be discovered in theoretical physics.
Max Planck, recalling the mood of optimism and conviction at that time, wrot=
e:

=E2=80=9CWhen I began my physical studies [in Munich in 1874] and sought adv=
ice from
my venerable teacher Phillipp von Jolly... he portrayed to me physics as a
highly developed almost fully matured science... Possibly in one or another
nook there would perhaps be a dust particle or a small bubble to be examined
and classified, but the system as a whole stood there fairly secured, and
theoretical physics approached visibly that degree of perfection which,
for example, geometry has had already for centuries=E2=80=9D.

The history of physics during the 20th century did show how dumb was that
point of view...

73  Alberto  I2PHD

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