Return-Path: Received: from rly-df07.mx.aol.com (rly-df07.mail.aol.com [172.19.156.20]) by air-df07.mail.aol.com (v121_r5.5) with ESMTP id MAILINDF071-566495c1e4c27b; Wed, 31 Dec 2008 20:37:38 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-df07.mx.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDF077-566495c1e4c27b; Wed, 31 Dec 2008 20:37:17 -0500 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1LICUU-0002jl-1a for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 01:36:50 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1LICUR-0002jc-E2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 01:36:47 +0000 Received: from smtp810.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.70]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LICUQ-0007ur-N5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 01:36:47 +0000 Received: (qmail 40598 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2009 01:36:40 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=w6690lHxqTt4gdPZgZ8shUYYeEH7enyTjeNZJinZE5+YYuwaL2xIAccE8/OW4kFJ4YaBHGZiiuSR4BRUI7hzGhq0AtAAbv6M4HmS5PRoD2bQR0x/SpgGJPw1z8mVXwt4tkNAVvjZwPhux9d791mAMJ2I56xaC+GLxsSKv6/eWO0= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.134.108.92 with login) by smtp810.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2009 01:36:39 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: .hpblEgVM1kAsAGuDdkuT2D0dLZquj_TVhP17SEOQvPpXttP0JCqB7yQ9XeVSfLBw.jAxPpzNqNmzYVWy9GYnRNfMztrxJZO.lK6pr_KdfAsNwDy7QyNhdDGKONHyIQR1n8X5evxHeOcPz1LI7SiDHMYGam49zBgxZlzPWnioKGpdZaUP_DQijJtFZoK4.U3f2MNOaHIFQbryX5KaZ2wBqKnVcM- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: From: "James Moritz" To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 01:36:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 X-Karma: 0: DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: Re: WE2XGR/2 in JT65A mode last night Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear David, LF Group, The WSJT modes are certainly effective, and quite easy to use . However it should be noted that there is something of a disparity in terms of ERP - The WE2XGR licences permit up to 200W ERP. I don't know what the ERP of XGR/2 is, but looking at the station details on Jay's web pages, I guess it must be a good deal more than 1W! So getting signals from UK -> USA is likely to be a bit more difficult. The dB level refers to the SNR in a bandwidth of 2.5kHz, and this reference point is used for all the WSJT programmes. The WSPR beacon signals have decoded successfully down to about -30dB, so should give a bit more margin still - M0BMU has been decoded a few times across the pond using WSPR at the 1W ERP level; I have not tried JT65A yet. It is a bit hard to compare the signal levels required to produce readable QRSS and successful decodes of JT65 / WSPR by looking at off-air signals. I got the impression looking at the XGR/2 signals using Spectrum Lab that the levels producing successful decodes were a good QRSS3 level, and perhaps a marginal QRSS1 level, but more systematic tests would be required. The bandwidth required by QRSS3 is about 0.3Hz, which would improve the SNR by 39dB compared to the 2500Hz WSJT reference bandwidth. I reckon you need 6dB or so SNR to copy QRSS, so that would put QRSS3 at about -33dB on the WSJT scale, but this takes no account of varying signal levels. I think the most important benefit when these modes are compared with QRSS, etc. is the increased data rate. If you were to send "WE2XGR/2 FN31" as QRSS, it would take around 160 bit periods, about 8 minutes at QRSS 3, as against 1 minute for JT65A and 2 minutes for WSPR. DFCW would be quicker, at about 3.3 minutes. The reduced time period should allow you to take advantages of short periods of higher signal strength in the QSB. It seems to be unusual to see periods of several minutes when a deep fade does not occur Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 9:01 PM Subject: LF: Re: WE2XGR/2 in JT65A mode last night > > Interesting result Jim / Jay. > > I assume that the figure that varies between -17 and -23 is the receive > value in dB. > Given the observation about local noise then it may be the case that UK - > USA could be achieved with 6 to 9dB less power.