Return-Path: Received: from rly-dd10.mx.aol.com (rly-dd10.mail.aol.com [172.19.141.157]) by air-dd01.mail.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDD011-ba34960e793216; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 11:45:34 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-dd10.mx.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDD105-ba34960e793216; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 11:45:09 -0500 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1LJW5M-0002FN-4H for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:44:20 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1LJW5J-0002FE-6r for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:44:17 +0000 Received: from web28104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.124]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LJW5J-0007VP-0u for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:44:17 +0000 Received: (qmail 71492 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jan 2009 16:44:10 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=Hj6v/Fe/JRgpP7BNqx5zGVhbk4q4RD+VkoqNwI9l819SPdul1TcosjXtOEtB3+tQ11vkTgHm89fgzJneMkJPfPh0B/48Fn5wi0caO9Uw1h4Uo0c2TNXgpozboMSu0+6n3h1PJRRWHe/pJCbF/lf6b890gcnb1JcJpbDY1d8+8sw=; X-YMail-OSG: W.ZvcuAVM1n51erVK6Z4kRwsSnxegsFrhiVZUyP9_arWA1zpiMzZk4GXvP6zZxi2mgcpJaiofMQ_hY1yPANUocQOXObsV7rQBzkAwP1M4vpeMVAL9ia.Y4aGHgZ5TJAN1t73xkXS2O0S76xvPtYlWBKHDgaNr.iJepiSaQwLloPlya72ONhDMbEduZv4BdSEg8KRXpFjm3qaNQ-- Received: from [86.130.69.9] by web28104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:44:10 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.260.1 Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 16:44:10 +0000 (GMT) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <005401c96e54$9f4e8040$0301a8c0@mal769a60aa920> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <900266.70866.qm@web28104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Karma: 0: DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: Re: RE: QRS 240 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1711285441-1231087450=:70866" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE,NO_COST autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1711285441-1231087450=:70866 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here Here Mal =C2=A0 I wonder how many of these "Hi Tech" mode stations live within line of sight= =C2=A0of another station then I think this BW hungry spread spectrum stuff w= ould be a nightmare to that local station? Especially running as an inane be= acon which undoubtedly will follow. =C2=A0 I have two 600m stations with in 8miles line of sight and another 13miles ov= er open country from me their CW is phenominally strong, a signal like Olivi= a 8/250 would obliorate the band for me. And for what? I asked for Morse on/off keying and very narrow FSK in my NoV application. D= id I miss something, like asking to use DSB? Its a 3 kc/s alloction for CS! =C2=A0 Mal you've got my vote and probably the Vote of the silent majority on the B= and. =C2=A0 End of RANT!! =C2=A0 73es HNY to all LF petefmt --- On Sun, 4/1/09, mal hamilton wrote: From: mal hamilton Subject: LF: Re: RE: Re: RE: QRS 240 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sunday, 4 January, 2009, 10:10 AM No change Gary, in fact I sent an amateur 2 valve bases a while back to get=20= him going on 137 khz. If you read my emails carefully all=C2=A0 that I am saying is that to date a= ll modes considered there has has been no improvement over normal CW or QRS=20= and very economical with bandwidth and signal transfer between stations. =C2=A0 I have no objection to any mode being used as long as it does not swamp the=20= band to the detriment of other band users. This past couple of nights one th= ird of the available band of 3 khz has been occupied by olivia plus other da= ta modes. ie 3 transmissions running parallel, this I do object to especiall= y when I was having a QSO with G3XIZ and almost swamped out, however I do ha= ve good selectivity and did manage but I think XIZ and his experimental DC r= eceiver was having a hard time. A data transmission or any other mode using=20= around 200 hz bandwidth would be acceptable most of the time. To be reasonable I have one suggestion. If someone is compelled to use a 1 k= hz wide mode then do it after say midnight for a few hours.=20 This reflecter has a big audicence and I get a considerable amounnt of priva= te emails agreeing with observations that I am making, I also get a few that= disagree. =C2=A0 As regards helping others this is going on all the time, and I frequently re= ply to requests for advice with all=C2=A0 aspects of LF and MF=C2=A0projects= . I also get help, recently as a=C2=A0 result of a discussion about preamps tw= o other amateurs reading the=C2=A0mail sent=C2=A0me the required chips at no= cost and likewise I do the same thing. =C2=A0 Most radio amateurs on here do discuss or argue their=C2=A0point in a civili= sed manner but=C2=A0you must have noticed how HOSTILE or ABUSIVE some get wh= en their opinin=C2=A0differs from others. They lose ther plot go off at a ta= ngent and start=C2=A0 attacking the individual putting forward a point of vi= ew. =C2=A0 I am not against black boxes for certain applications=C2=A0and have used the= m in the past ie PK232 and KAM., computer systems sound cards with the appro= priate software. I have a NOV for BBS operations GB7KEV and shifted the east= coast main line mail for several years into Scotland and beyond using a V/U= HF node network and gateway also on HF for worldwide mail exchanges. Main mo= des PACKET on V/UHF and Amtor/pactor on HF. This business has almost gone now with the advent of Internet access for mai= l and traffic exchanges. The black box=C2=A0is ideal for the mass transfer o= f messages which would be a chore on CW. I hope you now understand my point of view. 73 gl and HNY de Mal/G3KEV =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gary - G4WGT=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 9:03 PM Subject: LF: RE: Re: RE: QRS 240 Mal, =C2=A0 I admit, not nearly as many as you. =C2=A0 But why do you keep criticising what others do. It is as if they don=E2=80= =99t do it your way it isn=E2=80=99t correct. =C2=A0 I would be much nicer to advise & help others, don=E2=80=99t you think? =C2=A0 I remember when I first came on 136KHz you did help me & it was good advice,= I appreciated it, but your attitude seems to have changed, why? =C2=A0 Gary =E2=80=93 G4WGT. =C2=A0 From: owner- rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner- rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org ] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 03 January 2009 20:48 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: RE: QRS 240 =C2=A0 29 countries worked on 137 all on cw. What is your score. g3kev =C2=A0 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gary - G4WGT=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 8:28 PM Subject: LF: RE: QRS 240 =C2=A0 LF, =C2=A0 Oh my god, he=E2=80=99s doing it on 136KHz now !!! =C2=A0 Gary - G4WGT. =C2=A0 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner- rsgb_lf_group@blacks= heep.org ] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 03 January 2009 20:22 To: rsgb Subject: LF: QRS 240 =C2=A0 Its hard to believe that someone on 137 is sending at qrs240 sec dot !!!.Thi= nk how long this would take for a QSO, surprisingly there is no QSB on rhe c= arrier. I cannot wait for an ID. I could read it at qrs 1 g3kev =C2=A0 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.2/1872 - Release Date: 1/2/2009 1:= 10 PM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.2/1872 - Release Date: 1/2/2009 1:= 10 PM =20 --0-1711285441-1231087450=:70866 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=20 --0-1711285441-1231087450=:70866--
Here Here Mal
 
I wonder how many of these "Hi Tech" mode stations live within line of=20= sight of another station then I think this BW hungry spread spectrum st= uff would be a nightmare to that local station? Especially running as an ina= ne beacon which undoubtedly will follow.
 
I have two 600m stations with in 8miles line of sight and another 13mil= es over open country from me their CW is phenominally strong, a signal like=20= Olivia 8/250 would obliorate the band for me. And for what?
I asked for Morse on/off keying and very narrow FSK in my NoV applicati= on. Did I miss something, like asking to use DSB? Its a 3 kc/s alloction for= CS!
 
Mal you've got my vote and probably the Vote of the silent majority on=20= the Band.
 
End of RANT!!
 
73es HNY to all LF petefmt

--- On Sun, 4/1/09, mal hamilton <= I><g3kevmal@talktalk.net> wrote:
From: mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net>
Sub= ject: LF: Re: RE: Re: RE: QRS 240
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Dat= e: Sunday, 4 January, 2009, 10:10 AM

No change Gary, in fact I sent an amateur 2= valve bases a while back to get him going on 137 khz.
If you read my emails carefully all  t= hat I am saying is that to date all modes considered there has has been no i= mprovement over normal CW or QRS and very economical with bandwidth and sign= al transfer between stations.
 
I have no objection to any mode being used=20= as long as it does not swamp the band to the detriment of other band users.=20= This past couple of nights one third of the available band of 3 khz has been= occupied by olivia plus other data modes. ie 3 transmissions running parall= el, this I do object to especially when I was having a QSO with G3XIZ and al= most swamped out, however I do have good selectivity and did manage but I th= ink XIZ and his experimental DC receiver was having a hard time. A data tran= smission or any other mode using around 200 hz bandwidth would be acceptable= most of the time.
To be reasonable I have one suggestion. If=20= someone is compelled to use a 1 khz wide mode then do it after say midnight=20= for a few hours.
This reflecter has a big audicence and I ge= t a considerable amounnt of private emails agreeing with observations that I= am making, I also get a few that disagree.
 
As regards helping others this is going on=20= all the time, and I frequently reply to requests for advice with all  a= spects of LF and MF projects.
I also get help, recently as a  result= of a discussion about preamps two other amateurs reading the mail sent=  me the required chips at no cost and likewise I do the same thing.
 
Most radio amateurs on here do discuss or a= rgue their point in a civilised manner but you must have noticed h= ow HOSTILE or ABUSIVE some get when their opinin differs from others. T= hey lose ther plot go off at a tangent and start  attacking the individ= ual putting forward a point of view.
 
I am not against black boxes for certain ap= plications and have used them in the past ie PK232 and KAM., computer s= ystems sound cards with the appropriate software. I have a NOV for BBS opera= tions GB7KEV and shifted the east coast main line mail for several years int= o Scotland and beyond using a V/UHF node network and gateway also on HF for=20= worldwide mail exchanges. Main modes PACKET on V/UHF and Amtor/pactor on HF.=
This business has almost gone now with the=20= advent of Internet access for mail and traffic exchanges. The black box = ;is ideal for the mass transfer of messages which would be a chore on CW.
I hope you now understand my point of view.=
73 gl and HNY de Mal/G3KEV
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 9:03= PM
Subject: LF: RE: Re: RE: QRS 240

Mal= ,

&nb= sp;

I a= dmit, not nearly as many as you.

&nb= sp;

But= why do you keep criticising what others do. It is as if they don=E2=80=99t=20= do it your way it isn=E2=80=99t correct.

&nb= sp;

I w= ould be much nicer to advise & help others, don=E2=80=99t you think?

&nb= sp;

I r= emember when I first came on 136KHz you did help me & it was good advice= , I appreciated it, but your attitude seems to have changed, why?

&nb= sp;

Gar= y =E2=80=93 G4WGT.

&nb= sp;

From: owner- rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:own= er- rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ] On B= ehalf Of mal hamilton
Sen= t: 03 January 2009 20:48
= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re: RE: QRS 240

 

29 countries worked on 137 all on cw. What is your=20= score.

g3kev

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Gary - G4WGT <= /FONT>

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org

Sent: S= aturday, January 03, 2009 8:28 PM

Subject: LF: RE: QRS 240

 

LF,=

&nb= sp;

Oh=20= my god, he=E2=80=99s doing it on 136KHz now !!!

&nb= sp;

Gar= y - G4WGT.

&nb= sp;

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= [mailto:owner- rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ] On Behalf Of mal hamilton
Sent: 03 January 2009 20:22
To: rsgb
Subj= ect: LF: QRS 240

 

Its hard to believe that someone on 137 is sending=20= at qrs240 sec dot !!!.Think how long this would take for a QSO, surprisingly= there is no QSB on rhe carrier. I cannot wait for an ID. I could read it at= qrs 1

g3kev

 


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by=20= AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.2/187= 2 - Release Date: 1/2/2009 1:10 PM


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG -=20= http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.2/1872 - Re= lease Date: 1/2/2009 1:10 PM