Return-Path: Received: from rly-ma03.mx.aol.com (rly-ma03.mail.aol.com [172.20.116.47]) by air-ma09.mail.aol.com (v121_r5.5) with ESMTP id MAILINMA094-89c4965c1341d6; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 04:03:05 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-ma03.mx.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMA036-89c4965c1341d6; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 04:02:46 -0500 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1LKqmc-0007Xp-VU for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:02:30 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1LKqmc-0007Xg-8z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:02:30 +0000 Received: from n9a.bullet.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.183.157]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LKqmZ-00067e-EK for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:02:30 +0000 Received: from [217.146.182.177] by n9.bullet.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2009 09:02:20 -0000 Received: from [87.248.110.119] by t3.bullet.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2009 09:02:20 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp224.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2009 09:02:20 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 891915.82338.bm@omp224.mail.ukl.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 79655 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Jan 2009 09:02:20 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=q3P5bSssP7amDFDpfJrQ88/Mypnj3jQPTYj7BQE/qddP3zfKUfABMEBtuB02g65ykJNL4oD+ciO8PnHp0UGLLPURji8W3DbuqgwXpA5KXusaa1eD8TYj3jgSyN4u90MaqWQa17491gnSRqPDoW6bgDjEjAJ+CwBKUeDcQfcqUxA=; X-YMail-OSG: zrLyIo8VM1ly1a9dxDKqxAzhOeIeXJq0Jst4RZZhOpGEO9Sw6Jey.SOvst05kIXA6dUPu7jbYvduH_EdpxOYoXHVh1aOZo0Bwju9VV0xRj6Pwl9Wb1Nd5J1mR3rTlXNoQDOsErP6zUJX6uArHdbDNoDoxs5xyJCYXaVa3eZlhRTOLAAnh1z12Ij3a.mHvAP1f7nH Received: from [194.62.210.50] by web28507.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:02:20 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1155.45 YahooMailWebService/0.7.260.1 References: Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 09:02:20 +0000 (GMT) From: Chris Osborn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <661888.79627.qm@web28507.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Karma: 0: DomainKey-Status: bad (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276 Subject: LF: 500 kHz - Silent majority Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2040052497-1231405340=:79627" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.7 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-2040052497-1231405340=:79627 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I deduce that my (fairly) frequent transmissions on MF may be causing some annoyance and inconvenience to local stations. Consequently I shall be QRT on 500 kHz for the remainder of this month. This will give local stations an opportunity to use=C2=A0a quiet band withou= t G3XIZ QRM. I must report that sadly Adrian G4GDR has dismantled his MF equipment and=C2=A0returned his N.O.V.=C2=A0to OfCom. He was an active and keen MF operator and constructor but has lost interest=20= due to lack of activity. I for one will miss him. 73 Chris G3XIZ =C2=A0 ________________________________ From: Dave G3WCB To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Monday, 5 January, 2009 22:22:55 Subject: RE: LF: Re: Silent majority =EF=BB=BF=20 Dear LF,=20 =C2=A0 Geri DK8KW and Markus did some interesting slow-voice experiments on 137 kHz= a few years back.=20 =C2=A0 Definitely not a DX-mode, and a bit of a bandwidth-gobbler too=C2=A0;-) =C2=A0 Follow the link below:-=20 =C2=A0 http://www.qru.de/slowvoice.html =C2=A0 73, Dave G3WCB IO91RM =C2=A0 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org]On Behalf Of M0FMT Sent: 05 January 2009 02:37 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Silent majority Hi LF=20 Since by general consent the 600m band is now wide open for experimentation=20= of whatever computer aided mode that can be down loaded for free off the Int= ernet. Might I suggest the use of SSTV. They say a picture is worth a 1000 w= ords. I have thousands of holiday snaps I would like to share with the world= by way of a 24/7 beaconing experiment.=C2=A0 The result may be a bit more i= nteresting than the shopping lists of stations worked, equipment lists and r= ig specifications that get churned out ad nauseamover the weekends.=20 I am not sure what my afore mentioned local Amateur Radio 600m op friends wo= uld feel being only a few miles away from my QTH.=20 No, the above suggestion is ridiculous. It does however, Einstein, Planck et= al withstanding, beg the question; what is a suitable maximum bandwidth for= the development of new modes on our British 3Kc/s 600m band? =C2=A0I will s= tart the ball rolling by saying a BW no more than 50c/s. G3PLX managed with=20= less than 32c/s BW. Since there is a QSB / QRN issue on this band then hand=20= shaking could be introduced to ensure error free data transfer a bit like X2= 5 slow but sure yet confined in a very narrow bandwidth say 50c/s max. =C2= =A0We need to think outside the box and not try to shoe horn unsuitable mode= s onto 600m. To evoke names like Planck and co with all due respect to Alber= to (who I admire immensely for his great innovations with DSP, SDR, FFT proc= essing software) I think, =C2=A0is over the top. Nobody is into book burning= and denial of spectrum to impede progress but we only have 3kc/s to play wi= th here in the UK. =C2=A0I consider myself a =E2=80=9Cgrunt=E2=80=9D operato= r not a highflying =E2=80=9CEinstein=E2=80=9D radio spectrum quantum mechanic, but=20= I would hope we are trying to do more with less and I don=E2=80=99t think Ol= ivia is the answer. Whatever modes are proposed and developed, I would expec= t one of the cardinal points in their specification, along with very narrow=20= BW, to be compatibility with adjacent modes like CW and the effect on adjace= nt stations not running that particular mode.=20 In the mean time I am hoping to improve my manual CW skills assuming there a= re any stations still interested in that form of error correcting narrow ban= d data transfer and are still prepared to QSO with me.=20 Now retreating into my cave with my knuckles dragging along the ground.=20 Vy 73 petefmt=20 --- On Mon, 5/1/09, Alberto di Bene wrote: From: Alberto di Bene Subject: LF: Re: Silent majority To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 5 January, 2009, 12:05 AM Steve McDonald wrote: >> There is virtually nothing new to discover or invent that has not already >> taken place on MF. >=20 > There you go guys. You may as well stop your 600m experiments right now as > Mal has proclaimed that there is "nothing new to discover". Wouldn't it be > wonderful if we could all see the future as clearly as he apparently does. > What an amazing gift. >=20 > VE7SL / Steve This reminds me what Max Planck did write at the beginning of past century. At the turn of the 20th century scientists were absolutely certain that ther= e was nothing more to be discovered in theoretical physics. Max Planck, recalling the mood of optimism and conviction at that time, wrot= e: =E2=80=9CWhen I began my physical studies [in Munich in 1874] and sought adv= ice from my venerable teacher Phillipp von Jolly... he portrayed to me physics as a highly developed almost fully matured science... Possibly in one or another nook there would perhaps be a dust particle or a small bubble to be examined and classified, but the system as a whole stood there fairly secured, and theoretical physics approached visibly that degree of perfection which, for example, geometry has had already for centuries=E2=80=9D. The history of physics during the 20th century did show how dumb was that point of view... 73 Alberto I2PHD =20 --0-2040052497-1231405340=:79627 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I deduce that my (fairly) frequent transmissions on MF ma= y be causing
some annoyance and inconvenience to local stations.
 
Consequently I shall be QRT on 500 kHz for the remainder of this month.=
This will give local stations an opportunity to use a quiet band w= ithout
G3XIZ QRM.
 
I must report that sadly Adrian G4GDR has dismantled his MF equipment
and returned his N.O.V. to OfCom.
He was an active and keen MF operator and constructor but has lost inte= rest due
to lack of activity.
I for one will miss him.
 
73 Chris G3XIZ
 

 

From: Dave G3WCB <ganymed= e444@btopenworld.com>
To:<= /B> rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Sen= t: Monday, 5 January, 2009 22:22:55
Subject: RE: LF: Re: Silent majority

= =EF=BB=BF=20
Dear LF,
 
Geri DK8KW and Markus did some interesting slow-voice experiments on 1= 37 kHz a few years back.
 
Definitely not a DX-mode, and a bit of a bandwidth-gobbler too ;-= )
 
Follow the link below:-=20
 
=
 
73, Dave G3WCB IO91RM
 
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@bla= cksheep..org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of = M0FMT
Sent: 05 January 2009 02:37
To: rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep..org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Silent majority

Hi LF=20

Since by general consent the 600m band is now wide open for experiment= ation of whatever computer aided mode that can be down loaded for free off t= he Internet. Might I suggest the use of SSTV. They say a picture is worth a=20= 1000 words. I have thousands of holiday snaps I would like to share with the= world by way of a 24/7 beaconing experiment.  The result=20= may be a bit more interesting than the shopping lists of stations worked, eq= uipment lists and rig specifications that get churned out ad nauseam over the weeke= nds.=20

I am not sure what my afore mentioned local Amateur Radio 600m op frie= nds would feel being only a few miles away from my QTH.=20

No, the above suggestion is ridiculous. It does however, Einste= in, Planck et al withstanding, beg the question; what is a suitable maximum=20= bandwidth for the development of new modes on our British 3Kc/s 600m band? <= SPAN> I will start the ball rolling by saying a BW no more than=20= 50c/s. G3PLX managed with less than 32c/s BW. Since there is a QSB / QRN iss= ue on this band then hand shaking could be introduced to ensure error free d= ata transfer a bit like X25 slow but sure yet confined in a very narrow band= width say 50c/s max.  We need to think outside the box and= not try to shoe horn unsuitable modes onto 600m. To evoke names like Planck= and co with all due respect to Alberto (who I admire immensely for his grea= t innovations with DSP, SDR, FFT processing software) I think,  <= /SPAN>is over the top. Nobody is into book burning and denial of spectrum to impede progress but we only have 3kc/s to play with here in the= UK.  I consider myself a =E2=80=9Cgrunt=E2=80=9D operator= not a highflying =E2=80=9CEinstein=E2=80=9D radio spectrum quantum mechanic= , but I would hope we are trying to do more with less and I don=E2=80=99t th= ink Olivia is the answer. Whatever modes are proposed and developed, I would= expect one of the cardinal points in their specification, along with very n= arrow BW, to be compatibility with adjacent modes like CW and the effect on=20= adjacent stations not running that particular mode.=20

In the mean time I am hoping to improve my manual CW skills assuming t= here are any stations still interested in that form of error correcting narr= ow band data transfer and are still prepared to QSO with me.=20

Now retreating into my cave with my knuckles dragging along the ground= .=20

Vy 73 petefmt=20



--- On Mon, 5/1/09, Alberto di Bene <dibene@usa.= net> wrote:
From: Alberto di Bene <dibene@usa.net>
Subject= : LF: Re: Silent majority
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Monda= y, 5 January, 2009, 12:05 AM

Steve McDonald wrote:
>> There is virtually nothing new to discover or invent that has not
already
>> taken place on MF.
>=20
> There you go guys. You may as well stop your 600m experiments right now=
 as
> Mal has proclaimed that there is "nothing new to discover".
Wouldn't it be
> wonderful if we could all see the future as clearly as he apparently do=
es.
> What an amazing gift.
>=20
> VE7SL / Steve

This reminds me what Max Planck did write at the beginning of past century.
At the turn of the 20th century scientists were absolutely certain that ther=
e
was nothing more to be discovered in theoretical physics.
Max Planck, recalling the mood of optimism and conviction at that time, wrot=
e:

=E2=80=9CWhen I began my physical studies [in Munich in 1874] and sought adv=
ice from
my venerable teacher Phillipp von Jolly... he portrayed to me physics as a
highly developed almost fully matured science.... Possibly in one or another
nook there would perhaps be a dust particle or a small bubble to be examined
and classified, but the system as a whole stood there fairly secured, and
theoretical physics approached visibly that degree of perfection which,
for example, geometry has had already for centuries=E2=80=9D.

The history of physics during the 20th century did show how dumb was that
point of view...

73  Alberto  I2PHD


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