Return-Path: Received: from rly-mg06.mx.aol.com (rly-mg06.mail.aol.com [172.20.83.112]) by air-mg07.mail.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMG071-a1c4961727c34f; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 21:38:08 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-mg06.mx.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMG066-a1c4961727c34f; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 21:37:49 -0500 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1LJfKy-0001wQ-KV for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 02:37:04 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1LJfKx-0001wH-Qu for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 02:37:03 +0000 Received: from web28104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.124]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LJfKx-0002nG-Kn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 02:37:03 +0000 Received: (qmail 32333 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Jan 2009 02:36:57 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=J/smeNWNTWBYVXyb+DDXDM5wzKhCRbJVlLXFzPuNZBRLl/GMoqkdBExXYR7hVyXjSnZgY9dTaQ9sM+dip5alFOC9ivPkkvgSG9orhw6RNSIg4m9ieyz2u2GekDY5a9IueftKUBHxw8UvY0yTSwyZu9Ssia/8efkxZY78beVJOLk=; X-YMail-OSG: uNSMfnAVM1ljsY_sF6cbeVdhEgBf_IA.6b6d9nEIfsz5OHR9LluU9SvlPCuRB8c2GJNEI48ADkWOgKklwAOc4EZYAr.t1QQEi9AytnVa3Ogj.R_Z8CLkQCtVCkaaWEddfDCD3RG8HcHHQmImqs9py1K1OWgZjSeZMHX1Icbz_nGt_KZTznNyKE3F2CZ9ezwrAEf0ydq2dqw8N2yeQeAzK_Sl2MlzFrHP0hluD2ABcDrXv2u1NIF.vLM9gZ25TXMFsg-- Received: from [86.130.69.9] by web28104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 02:36:56 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.260.1 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 02:36:56 +0000 (GMT) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <49614ECE.8010004@usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <119030.30938.qm@web28104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Karma: 0: DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: Re: Silent majority Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1311292413-1231123016=:30938" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1311292413-1231123016=:30938 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi LF Since by general consent the 600m band is now wide open for experimentation=20= of whatever computer aided mode that can be down loaded for free off the Int= ernet. Might I suggest the use of SSTV. They say a picture is worth a 1000 w= ords. I have thousands of holiday snaps I would like to share with the world= by way of a 24/7 beaconing experiment.=C2=A0 The result may be a bit more i= nteresting than the shopping lists of stations worked, equipment lists and r= ig specifications that get churned out ad nauseam over the weekends. I am not sure what my afore mentioned local Amateur Radio 600m op friends wo= uld feel being only a few miles away from my QTH. No, the above suggestion is ridiculous. It does however, Einstein, Planck et= al withstanding, beg the question; what is a suitable maximum bandwidth for= the development of new modes on our British 3Kc/s 600m band? =C2=A0I will s= tart the ball rolling by saying a BW no more than 50c/s. G3PLX managed with=20= less than 32c/s BW. Since there is a QSB / QRN issue on this band then hand=20= shaking could be introduced to ensure error free data transfer a bit like X2= 5 slow but sure yet confined in a very narrow bandwidth say 50c/s max. =C2= =A0We need to think outside the box and not try to shoe horn unsuitable mode= s onto 600m. To evoke names like Planck and co with all due respect to Alber= to (who I admire immensely for his great innovations with DSP, SDR, FFT proc= essing software) I think, =C2=A0is over the top. Nobody is into book burning= and denial of spectrum to impede progress but we only have 3kc/s to play wi= th here in the UK. =C2=A0I consider myself a =E2=80=9Cgrunt=E2=80=9D operato= r not a highflying =E2=80=9CEinstein=E2=80=9D radio spectrum quantum mechanic, but=20= I would hope we are trying to do more with less and I don=E2=80=99t think Ol= ivia is the answer. Whatever modes are proposed and developed, I would expec= t one of the cardinal points in their specification, along with very narrow=20= BW, to be compatibility with adjacent modes like CW and the effect on adjace= nt stations not running that particular mode. In the mean time I am hoping to improve my manual CW skills assuming there a= re any stations still interested in that form of error correcting narrow ban= d data transfer and are still prepared to QSO with me. Now retreating into my cave with my knuckles dragging along the ground. Vy 73 petefmt --- On Mon, 5/1/09, Alberto di Bene wrote: From: Alberto di Bene Subject: LF: Re: Silent majority To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 5 January, 2009, 12:05 AM Steve McDonald wrote: >> There is virtually nothing new to discover or invent that has not already >> taken place on MF. >=20 > There you go guys. You may as well stop your 600m experiments right now as > Mal has proclaimed that there is "nothing new to discover". Wouldn't it be > wonderful if we could all see the future as clearly as he apparently does. > What an amazing gift. >=20 > VE7SL / Steve This reminds me what Max Planck did write at the beginning of past century. At the turn of the 20th century scientists were absolutely certain that ther= e was nothing more to be discovered in theoretical physics. Max Planck, recalling the mood of optimism and conviction at that time, wrot= e: =E2=80=9CWhen I began my physical studies [in Munich in 1874] and sought adv= ice from my venerable teacher Phillipp von Jolly... he portrayed to me physics as a highly developed almost fully matured science... Possibly in one or another nook there would perhaps be a dust particle or a small bubble to be examined and classified, but the system as a whole stood there fairly secured, and theoretical physics approached visibly that degree of perfection which, for example, geometry has had already for centuries=E2=80=9D. The history of physics during the 20th century did show how dumb was that point of view... 73 Alberto I2PHD =20 --0-1311292413-1231123016=:30938 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi LF

Since by general consent the 600m band is now wide open for experiment= ation of whatever computer aided mode that can be down loaded for free off t= he Internet. Might I suggest the use of SSTV. They say a picture is worth a=20= 1000 words. I have thousands of holiday snaps I would like to share with the= world by way of a 24/7 beaconing experiment.  The result may be a bit more interesting than the shopping=20= lists of stations worked, equipment lists and rig specifications that get ch= urned out ad nauseam over the weekends.

I am not sure what my afore mentioned local Amateur Radio 600m op frie= nds would feel being only a few miles away from my QTH.

No, the above suggestion is ridiculous. It does however, Einste= in, Planck et al withstanding, beg the question; what is a suitable maximum=20= bandwidth for the development of new modes on our British 3Kc/s 600m band? <= SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> I will start the ball rolling=20= by saying a BW no more than 50c/s. G3PLX managed with less than 32c/s BW. Si= nce there is a QSB / QRN issue on this band then hand shaking could be intro= duced to ensure error free data transfer a bit like X25 slow but sure yet co= nfined in a very narrow bandwidth say 50c/s max.  We need to think outside the box and not try to shoe hor= n unsuitable modes onto 600m. To evoke names like Planck and co with all due= respect to Alberto (who I admire immensely for his great innovations with D= SP, SDR, FFT processing software) I think,  is over the top. Nobody is into book burning and denial of s= pectrum to impede progress but we only have 3kc/s to play with here in the U= K.  I consider myself a =E2= =80=9Cgrunt=E2=80=9D operator not a highflying =E2=80=9CEinstein=E2=80=9D ra= dio spectrum quantum mechanic, but I would hope we are trying to do more wit= h less and I don=E2=80=99t think Olivia is the answer. Whatever modes are pr= oposed and developed, I would expect one of the cardinal points in their spe= cification, along with very narrow BW, to be compatibility with adjacent mod= es like CW and the effect on adjacent stations not running that particular m= ode.

In the mean time I am hoping to improve my manual CW skills assuming t= here are any stations still interested in that form of error correcting narr= ow band data transfer and are still prepared to QSO with me.

Now retreating into my cave with my knuckles dragging along the ground= .

Vy 73 petefmt

--- On Mon, 5/1/09, Alberto di Be= ne <dibene@usa.net> wrote:

From: Alberto di Bene <dibene@usa.net>
Subject= : LF: Re: Silent majority
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Monda= y, 5 January, 2009, 12:05 AM

Steve McDonald wrote:
>> There is virtually nothing new to discover or invent that has not
already
>> taken place on MF.
>=20
> There you go guys. You may as well stop your 600m experiments right now=
 as
> Mal has proclaimed that there is "nothing new to discover".
Wouldn't it be
> wonderful if we could all see the future as clearly as he apparently do=
es.
> What an amazing gift.
>=20
> VE7SL / Steve

This reminds me what Max Planck did write at the beginning of past century.
At the turn of the 20th century scientists were absolutely certain that ther=
e
was nothing more to be discovered in theoretical physics.
Max Planck, recalling the mood of optimism and conviction at that time, wrot=
e:

=E2=80=9CWhen I began my physical studies [in Munich in 1874] and sought adv=
ice from
my venerable teacher Phillipp von Jolly... he portrayed to me physics as a
highly developed almost fully matured science... Possibly in one or another
nook there would perhaps be a dust particle or a small bubble to be examined
and classified, but the system as a whole stood there fairly secured, and
theoretical physics approached visibly that degree of perfection which,
for example, geometry has had already for centuries=E2=80=9D.

The history of physics during the 20th century did show how dumb was that
point of view...

73  Alberto  I2PHD

=20 --0-1311292413-1231123016=:30938--