Return-Path: Received: from rly-md06.mx.aol.com (rly-md06.mail.aol.com [172.20.29.144]) by air-md03.mail.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMD032-90e4956cec93a4; Sat, 27 Dec 2008 19:56:52 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-md06.mx.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMD066-90e4956cec93a4; Sat, 27 Dec 2008 19:56:44 -0500 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1LGjx6-0000EN-C4 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Dec 2008 00:56:20 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1LGjx5-0000EE-Vp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Dec 2008 00:56:19 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.151] helo=smtp6.freeserve.com) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LGjx4-0000O3-Sy for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Dec 2008 00:56:19 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3506.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id B81FF7000084 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2008 01:56:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.7.195]) by mwinf3506.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 81CED7000082 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2008 01:56:02 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20081228005602531.81CED7000082@mwinf3506.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <0487973A220D40E0B39B30857E57D4B8@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <4956BFEE.19110.2EE6D21@v.d.heide.on-line.de> In-Reply-To: <4956BFEE.19110.2EE6D21@v.d.heide.on-line.de> Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 00:55:52 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.5027.908 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.5027.908 X-Karma: -140: lashback.ubl=-140.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: WSPR and CW Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Klaus, Interesting > '''(3) I am working on a digital mode for minimal QSOs. '''' What is your definition of 'minimal' ? Are you testing the mode on air ? Rgds Graham .. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Klaus von der Heide" Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 10:53 PM To: Subject: LF: Re: WSPR and CW > > > > Hello friends, > > > my comments to the discussion WSPR vs. CW: > > (1) Modes only can be compared at a specified data rate. > Of course, CW is "better" than every thinkable digital > mode if we allow it to be slowed down until something > can be identified on the screen. What really counts is > the duration of a random QSO. > > (2) Modes only can be compared at a specified error rate. > Try to communicate completely unknown messages! The > symbol error rate of CW at it's ultimate snr is > relatively high. Getting confidence in a callsign > needs a low symbol error rate, i.e. a good snr. > > (3) I am working on a digital mode for minimal QSOs. > In simulations with Gaussian noise and Rayleigh fading > it is 1 dB above the Shannon limit. On-off-keying as > used by CW by principle cannot reach that. > > > Wishing the best for 2009, > > 73 de Klaus, DJ5HG > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1865 - Release Date: > 12/26/2008 13:01 >