Return-Path: Received: from rly-de05.mx.aol.com (rly-de05.mail.aol.com [172.19.170.141]) by air-de01.mail.aol.com (v121_r5.5) with ESMTP id MAILINDE012-4d4495be1c3f0; Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:19:20 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-de05.mx.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDE051-4d4495be1c3f0; Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:19:01 -0500 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1LI8Sh-0006hu-Lp for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:18:43 +0000 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1LI8Sg-0006hl-RQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:18:42 +0000 Received: from mk-filter-4-a-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.100.55]) by relay3.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LI8Se-0008JR-NQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:18:42 +0000 X-Trace: 121612678/mk-filter-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com/B2C/$b2c-THROTTLED-DYNAMIC/b2c-CUSTOMER-DYNAMIC-IP/88.106.111.235/None/g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 88.106.111.235 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk X-MUA: Microsoft Office Outlook 11Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Au8SAOtvW0lYam/r/2dsb2JhbACCQyxUQIUYeIMrv1AGhj4 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.36,309,1228089600"; d="scan'208,217";a="121612678" Received: from 88-106-111-235.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com (HELO asus) ([88.106.111.235]) by smtp.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 31 Dec 2008 21:18:34 +0000 From: "Gary - G4WGT" To: References: Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:18:33 -0000 Message-ID: <00ea01c96b8d$562bc680$6401a8c0@asus> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AclrizYoL9yDz4pIQxykF9bN0Z40vgAAYyoQ X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: RE: Re: WE2XGR/2 in JT65A mode last night Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00EB_01C96B8D.562BC680" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_00EB_01C96B8D.562BC680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David, LF, Very interesting you wrote :- This is a very efficient mode. The magazine 'Dubus' this quarter has an article on communicating over the horizon with light by reflecting light modulated by JT65 off the clouds. I have just seen this mail via the Spectrum Lab Group copy below. Gary - G4WGT Hello Walter Yes the time for a block is very slow - in fact around 15 minutes. However, we don't mind if we spend a whole evening to complete a QSO as our goal is to extend the distance for optical cloud bounce beyond the 209 km we have presently achieved with WSJT. Our experiments to date with a single tone show that the optical cloudbounce can work effectively at milli-Hz bandwidths and give around 30 dB improvement on WSJT. The thinking is that MFSK in say 2 mHz steps over 340 Hz would allow around 17 bits so two blocks would allow a callsign to be sent with Kotter-Vardy source encoding at 28 bits per callsign. Thus it would take an hour to send two callsigns. Because the system is very slow it could initially be decoded by eye from Spectrum Lab and if successful we could perhaps output the Spectrum Lab data to automate the process - but this is for the future. As Wolfgang has intimated soundcard stablity is also an issue but this should be resolvable by GPS locking if we find the approach to be viable. Happy New Year Rex VK7MO _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of G0MRF@aol.com Sent: 31 December 2008 21:02 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: WE2XGR/2 in JT65A mode last night Interesting result Jim / Jay. I assume that the figure that varies between -17 and -23 is the receive value in dB. Given the observation about local noise then it may be the case that UK - USA could be achieved with 6 to 9dB less power. This is a very efficient mode. The magazine 'Dubus' this quarter has an article on communicating over the horizon with light by reflecting light modulated by JT65 off the clouds. Clearly various JT modes are being used at both extremes of the EM Spectrum. No wonder it's creator also holds a Nobel prize for Physics. Happy new year everyone. David G0MRF In a message dated 31/12/2008 18:20:04 GMT Standard Time, james.moritz@btopenworld.com writes: The total number of decodes at this QTH was 14. Most occured between 2348 and 0012, when there were 10 decodes out of a possible 13. The first decode occured at 2300 and the last at 0102. So these are over a similar period of time to G3XVL's reception, although differently distributed. I think more decodes would have occured if the level of mains noise here last night had been lower. ------=_NextPart_000_00EB_01C96B8D.562BC680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

David, LF,

&nb= sp;

Very interesting you wrote :-

This is a very eff= icient mode. The magazine 'Dubus' this quarter has an article on communicating over the horizon with light by reflecting light modulated by JT65 off the clouds.

 

I have just seen this mail via the Spectrum Lab Group copy below.=

&nb= sp;

Gary = 211; G4WGT

&nb= sp;

Hello Walter

Yes the time for a block is very slow - in fact around 15 minutes.
However, we don't mind if we spend a whole evening to complete a QSO
as our goal is to extend the distance for optical cloud bounce beyond
the 209 km we have presently achieved with WSJT. Our experiments to
date with a single tone show that the optical cloudbounce can work
effectively at milli-Hz bandwidths and give around 30 dB improvement
on WSJT. The thinking is that MFSK in say 2 mHz steps over 340 Hz
would allow around 17 bits so two blocks would allow a callsign to be
sent with Kotter-Vardy source encoding at 28 bits per callsign. Thus
it would take an hour to send two callsigns. Because the system is
very slow it could initially be decoded by eye from Spectrum Lab and
if successful we could perhaps output the Spectrum Lab data to
automate the process - but this is for the future.

As Wolfgang has intimated soundcard stablity is also an issue but
this should be resolvable by GPS locking if we find the approach to
be viable.

Happy New Year

Rex VK7MO

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of G0MRF@aol.com Sent: 31 December 2008 21:02<= br> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re: WE2XGR/2 in=20= JT65A mode last night

 

Interesting result Jim=20= / Jay.

 

I assume that the figur= e that varies between -17 and -23 is the receive value in dB.

Given the observation a= bout local noise then it may be the case that UK - USA could be achieved with 6 to 9dB less power.

 

This is a very eff= icient mode. The magazine 'Dubus' this quarter has an article on communicating over the horizon with light by reflecting light modulated by JT65 off the clouds.

 

Clearly various JT mode= s are being used at both extremes of the EM Spectrum.  No wonder it's creator also holds= a Nobel prize for Physics.

 

Happy new year everyone= .

 

David G0MRF<= /span>

 

 

In a message dated 31/1= 2/2008 18:20:04 GMT Standard Time, james.moritz@btopenworld.com writes:

The total number of dec= odes at this QTH was 14. Most occured between 2348
and 0012, when there were 10 decodes out of a possible 13. The first decode=20=
occured at 2300 and the last at 0102. So these are over a similar period of=20=
time to G3XVL's reception, although differently distributed.

I think more decodes would have occured if the level of mains noise here last night had been lower.

 

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