Return-Path: Received: from rly-me02.mx.aol.com (rly-me02.mail.aol.com [172.20.83.35]) by air-me10.mail.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILINME101-9a1493d316412; Mon, 08 Dec 2008 09:38:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-me02.mx.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINME025-9a1493d316412; Mon, 08 Dec 2008 09:38:31 -0500 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1L9hFT-00065j-24 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2008 14:38:11 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1L9hFS-00065a-Kw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2008 14:38:10 +0000 Received: from smtp802.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.62]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1L9hFQ-0005vs-Kz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2008 14:38:10 +0000 Received: (qmail 70526 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2008 14:37:56 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Received:Message-ID:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=Xb4dX0GRF7oyMyi5AdpsGVfj4sZ58NYTkvceNpTHWVYWcLsyqDaH5p+fH2kSx7FdRvD2httxBBulTKLd+YFU/1j1Ii3my8fMk6ZiRlHxJrusUnUQfYGkDNqvtFmfv65Pf4BVD7ZIxDNVuaw04Tjm+PUtyoN6+hXwixAOSC05ASs= ; Received: from unknown (HELO w4o8m9) (james.moritz@86.134.108.92 with login) by smtp802.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2008 14:37:55 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: TMOPzGwVM1nqQYQHcCfPGkaFda3ismTYCdwCBPjJ036doP.0WCN5wBYd0QjYlp5_egzrCkQ6k6oxAcKzP3lnmCwAVz3ag.tCl__fPGjPIWpKWqDAn2MBPFk.OvGo7FSVu4ECTaGN4ZhasVKmv5CO0VILDD4ST8P_4FGO6WQ- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.5.552 [270.9.15/1835]); Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:37:15 +0000 Message-ID: <000901c95879$4c6a6ce0$4201a8c0@home> From: "James Moritz" To: Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 14:37:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Karma: 0: DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: ERP calculations / measurements Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear Brian, LF Group, Very interesting to see the field strength measurements spreadsheet from CT1DRP. At M0BMU, the results of similar measurements show comparable variations in calculated ERP - a range of a few dB. However, there is no obvious trend in variations in ERP with distance or azimuth angle. The terrain around here is fairly flat, with height variations of only a few 10s of metres in the measuring area, so there is little variation in elevation. The variations that occur between different locations are quite consistent if the measurement is repeated over a period of months, so it seems likely variations are due to some feature of the receiving sites, rather than just being "random errors" in measurement. At CT1DRP, the results show a rather convincing trend to a higher apparent ERP at higher elevations. I am no statistician, but there are enough data points to make it rather far-fetched that this could be some random coincidence, so I think it must be a real effect. I am not sure about how this might occur. If it were a case of simply raising the measuring antenna to different elevation angles, then it would seem reasonable that the results show part of the radiation pattern in elevation. But of course, the ground plane underneath the measuring antenna is also being raised up by the same amount. If the raised ground underneath the measring antenna was totally transparent to radio waves, or was a perfect absorber, then the apparent radiation pattern of the transmitting antenna should be unaffected. But since the ground is neither of these things, I'm sure it must have an effect on the field at the measuring antenna. Since the scale of the distances and heights of the sloping ground "obstacle" involved are comparable to the wavelength of the signal, I think the processes involved must be a mixture of reflection and diffraction. Intuitively, it might be somewhat like water running over a bump in a river bed - there is a local increase in the current where the obstructed water is forced out of its original path to join the flow above and around the bump. In an analagous way, might the RF energy being diverted up the hill lead to an increased field intensity at the top? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU