Return-Path: Received: from rly-ma10.mx.aol.com (rly-ma10.mail.aol.com [172.20.116.54]) by air-ma10.mail.aol.com (v121_r2.11) with ESMTP id MAILINMA102-8d548ad4f3630; Thu, 21 Aug 2008 07:19:50 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-ma10.mx.aol.com (v121_r2.11) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMA107-8d548ad4f3630; Thu, 21 Aug 2008 07:19:20 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1KW8Be-0004cZ-MA for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:18:42 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1KW8Be-0004cQ-5j for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:18:42 +0100 Received: from smtp813.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.73]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1KW8Bb-0001wU-CM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:18:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 22027 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2008 11:18:33 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Received:Message-ID:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=R4AN5mwFqBid20EkQ5wm+BigQVOH3sDh86cch1+PUvRn2vcyKKRvnt8sJfFrkM7iVQ7UmbZgI80mtmxx0w/tCQv4ZGh2Jnb+ujsKEYNPtixyn2l9b0kcZ1FFzFFAbXjRwUxD44iB/XL2b44LQg2P1x0Wt9xw9TxBqQLDGnI5t9Y= ; Received: from unknown (HELO w4o8m9) (james.moritz@btopenworld.com@86.135.94.149 with login) by smtp813.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Aug 2008 11:18:32 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: V2rSZSQVM1k75ogiZ6_H9olrrN7fKkgfw3vN6K.heHFkwf9dVFzrbaUW2LySmwe5yyNt2c9zrxqIbd01_A.SaqW2xXVS9Yfu7ErmvsxkxbrRU.L6HFd6rINuELFsGauzXXg- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.5.524 [270.6.6/1625]); Wed, 20 Aug 2008 20:13:11 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c902f8$c9bcac20$4201a8c0@home> From: "James Moritz" To: Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 20:13:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Karma: 0: DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Keyboard modes for 600m Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_helo : n X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_822_from : n Dear Graham, LF Group, Re: noise generation with class D amplifiers - this is not really a problem with the amplifier, but has more to do with the way the signal is produced. If you apply an FSK or PSK signal direct to a class D/E amplifier, there shouldn't be a problem, since the phase information will be preserved. However, modes like PSK31 also apply envelope modulation to the basic PSK signal to reduce the bandwidth of the signal - the signal amplitude is reduced to zero at the instants phase keying occurs, which eliminates the "key clicks" that would otherwise happen. Most soundcard signal generation schemes produce the phase/amplitude modulated signal directly at audio frequency, which is then translated in frequency and amplified as neccesary. If such a signal is applied to a switching-mode amplifier, the amplifier will act as a hard limiter, producing a constant amplitude output from the varying amplitude input. This creates a problem when the input signal amplitude is near zero, since the output is then effectively limited noise at full amplitude, as in an FM IF amplifier. This will result in rather unpredictable noise sidebands at the TX output. This problem can be solved by amplitude modulating the DC supply to the amplifier so that the input and output signal amplitudes track each other, as in my EER design. You could also get rid of the noise problem by not amplitude modulating the soundcard-generated signal, but this would of course bring back the key clicks problem. A multi-tone signal applied to a switching mode PA would have the same problem with noise where the input signal amplitude is near zero, plus intermodulation products between the tones will be produced. As well as making the transmitted signal "wide", the extra spectral components might also interfere with the decoder aquiring and demodulating the signal, depending how these algorithms work. So really you need to have a way of amplitude modulating a high efficiency class D/E amplifier if you want to use the more complicated types of modulation. The designers of "soundcard modes" generally expect them to be used with an SSB phone TX, which they are 99.9% of the time, so it is convenient to generate the complete signal at audio. For the newer types of transmitter, really one would like to have seperate amplitude and phase modulation signals. This is done in most new solid-state high-efficiency broadcast transmitters, but amateurs are lagging behind a bit here. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU