Return-Path: Received: from rly-de10.mx.aol.com (rly-de10.mail.aol.com [172.19.170.146]) by air-de08.mail.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILINDE082-50648847346145; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:30:37 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-de10.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDE101-50648847346145; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:30:17 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1KKtaF-0004Lb-AX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:29:39 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1KKtaE-0004LS-Tj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:29:38 +0100 Received: from yw-out-1718.google.com ([74.125.46.157]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1KKtaC-00036j-1w for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:29:38 +0100 Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 9so432580ywk.64 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 04:29:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; bh=t+LyXAW+7hW6PnmYHCUlUTc2J1HDavdIsfcA7O6vlUc=; b=szkrdKaCwVhkH3qMTsf7gIjIDbkXI4GoNFJM5ffhx2h79uFjf3y9D9mB7g20Z5XKAk CjmHbk6CymnQcnolxccPM0g8L1X3C/y/qKgUA0fJSUngwU9fiCAikwu4Ihx+qzYeiTdF iSWCMQ7wvSwXSOmjtH1udt7pdeYHVEvbK+/ZA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=J25hWCn9VgftL3nk///gseqwWClQwCMLAPHaq9yQOTgsN1w4kdpgSBkvX16OJ2bOfO 6mYRmUWVG15b9tDZgEgIpKTs39hn2dmuw5hzwSma/z3OcVTaEBhhjfQefUBSNFHtPKaH lsD5WIfGJ+4Ex/PQmZnQMjySLTFFZo/B/SrIg= Received: by 10.150.148.19 with SMTP id v19mr3640891ybd.240.1216639773585; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 04:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.50.21 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 04:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:29:33 +0100 From: "Andy Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline X-Karma: 0: DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Loop Conundrum Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_helo : n X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_822_from : ? X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Was pondering this while out walking the other day, and couldn't come to a satisfactory conclusion either way... A small magnetic loop mounted vertically has a defined radiation resistance that is a function of its diameter, a loss that is function of its conductor and hence a loss or efficiency that is the ratio of the two. It is resonated with a good quality vacuum capacitor, and fed/matched by any suitable metrhod. Lets also leave aside all the myth and folklore about small loops, and also ignore the environment for now. It also as a radiation pattern with nulls. Now, I take two identical such loops and mount then on the same centre line but at right angles to eachother so there should be no coupling between them, whatsoever. Now, I connect the two loops in series and resonate the combination with a single capacitor of half the original value. The resulting radiation pattern should have the nulls filled in, and be a reasonable approximation to omnidirectional in azimuth. BUT... What is the resulting change in efficiency? Argument 1: Two identical loops = two times the loss R, but also two times the radiation resistance (since they don't couple) so net efficiency remains the same. Argument 2 : Chu-Harrington relates efficiency / Q / bandwidth / volume enclosed. Therefore, as the enclosed volume has increased, the effciency ought to rise. Both arguments developed little side trendrils & thoughts as I walked and pondered, and both appear valid in their own way. So the floor is open for discussion :- And where does the net radiation pattern fit into the equation? Does it, at all ? -- Andy G4JNT www.scrbg.org/g4jnt ps. Fascinating paper on EMP btw. - I was up way past midnight last night reading it.