Return-Path: Received: from rly-da06.mx.aol.com (rly-da06.mail.aol.com [172.19.129.80]) by air-da04.mail.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILINDA041-a7748810d94282; Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:39:59 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-da06.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDA067-a7748810d94282; Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:39:36 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1KJxfZ-0006bC-AC for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jul 2008 22:39:17 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1KJxfY-0006b3-JY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jul 2008 22:39:16 +0100 Received: from smtp1.wanadoo.co.uk ([193.252.22.158] helo=smtp1.freeserve.com) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1KJxfU-0008E0-Ud for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jul 2008 22:39:16 +0100 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3008.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id E7A881C00083 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2008 23:39:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.110.91.118]) by mwinf3008.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id D68191C00082 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2008 23:39:02 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20080718213902878.D68191C00082@mwinf3008.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <90E3D53F14BD4F30AF5A6FE7C1192DE1@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 22:38:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 X-Karma: 0: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Rad Com / critical mass etc Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D0_01C8E927.10FCD2E0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_helo : n X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_822_from : n ------=_NextPart_000_00D0_01C8E927.10FCD2E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave If anything was to be made for 500 and possibly 137 , I would suggest a 'Li= nea transverter' would possibly be the most useful, solving the problems of= poor receiver performance and the ability to generate the linear drive re= quired by most of the data modes that interface simply with a soundcard , 10= watts would be a good starting point ? G .. =20 From: G0MRF@aol.com=20 Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 8:09 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Cc: jwgould@iee.org.uk ; g3wkl@btinternet.com=20 Subject: LF: Rad Com / critical mass etc Hello John, WKL, and group. I think it may have been me who picked up Mal's expression "fizzled out" an= d applied it to the technical content, in particular construction articles,=20= in Rad Com. Trying a little more seriously to look at the lack of activity on 500k and t= he content of Rad Com, I would say that the two are related. I can understand how the change in content in our magazine reflects similar=20= unfortunate changes in other publications. I suspect this is primarily drive= n by the desire to cut costs, after all changing to a news based format allo= ws the editor/s to simply cut and paste articles from one source into the bl= ank pages which will become a future Rad Com. As a good example of cut and=20= paste journalism, take a look at the 'announcement' of Tent Speakers from a=20= company called 'Blacks' on page 10 of the August edition. You don't have to= read very far into that article to immediately see that it has been lifted=20= from some piece of advertising junk mail that's arrived at the office. Heavi= ly and badly edited, it's reduced size leaves out more facts than it conveys= . What for example is an EVA shell? Or come to that NXT speakers? We'll neve= r know, because that information didn't make it into the space the editor ha= d to fill. - A really good example of poor editing and production. It's comp= lete tat. So, what's the link to 500k activity? Well, this group largely consists of=20= very capable individuals who can use a soldering iron and many of those can=20= actively design equipment of some sort for 500k. The thing we all lack is ti= me and frequently we like to save those long designing tasks for something t= hat's right at the top of our interest agenda. There would undoubtedly be mo= re 500k operators if tested and widely published designs were available. But= we need more than that. To really kick start 500k, someone needs to produce= either kits or finished modules and that is where RadCom can be vital. In=20= the past I have produced designs and kits for 136kHz. The 300W amplifier kit= was one, and the completed ready to go 136kHz preamp, designed by Dave G3YX= M, was another. I was really surprised that although the preamp was only a h= andful of components, people would choose to buy it assembled and tested rat= her than build it themselves. Somewhere out there are 150 preamps and 50 30= 0W transmitter kits which must have had some effect on 136k activity. Unfortunately, it costs quite a lot to make a kit available. You need minimu= m order quantities for PCBs to make it cost effective, and a kit that contai= ns a few inches of say, 28 SWG wire means you have to buy a reel......and so= on and so on. Having an article published in RadCom was key to making a kit viable. But n= ow, there are no significant articles being published. If, I submit an artic= le am I going to be told, we don't do that any more, or we like most magazin= es commission articles? Basically, last year I looked at 500k as a possible opportunity for designin= g a DDS driven transmitter. 100W out, little 2 line LCD, PIC microcontroller= running a DDS. - All fairly straightforward and if run from 12V, a project=20= that would attract people onto 500k. But the single reason why that didn't h= appen was because at the time when I had the idea, Rad Com hadn't published=20= a single significant construction article in the previous 12 months. It takes about 300 - =A3400 to get something like this started. With no mean= s of promoting it, those components just sit around selling one or two every= 6 months. The people who buy them arrive at an uninhabited 500k and mostly=20= give up. It needs a certain momentum to get it started. If 30 people arrive=20= on the band in a short space of time, others think, that sounds like fun, I'= ll join them and you have sustained interest. Of course you can just put a design on the web, but then you lose the abili= ty to get a 'critical mass' of people on the band. With RadCom going to a newspaper format with almost zero 'freelance' technic= al content, small kit suppliers and individuals are simply unwilling to take= the risk. Hope that helps David G0MRF In a message dated 17/07/2008 08:22:10 GMT Standard Time, jwgould@iee.org wr= ites: To me the important point that I tried to make in my posting, which has drawn no comment, is the one I made about getting people to write up their experimental work for publication, and specifically that concerning 500kHz= . To maintain progress on gaining a long-term allocation around 500kHz we wi= ll need to raise the profile nationally and internationally of work undertake= n on 500kHz. One way of doing this is to get a few good technical articles written, not just sharing knowledge but encouraging others and providing suitable designs to enable them to join in; good construction articles can do just that.=20 73 John, G3WKL No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.1/1560 - Release Date: 7/18/2008 06= :47 ------=_NextPart_000_00D0_01C8E927.10FCD2E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 Dave
 
If anything was to  be made for 500 and possibly 137 , I would sug= gest=20 a 'Linea transverter' would possibly be the most  useful, solving the=20 problems of poor receiver performance and the ability to  generate = ;the=20  linear drive required by most of the data modes that interface simply=20= with=20 a soundcard , 10 watts would be a good starting point ?
 
G ..  
 
 
 

Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 8:09 PM
Subject: LF: Rad Com / critical mass etc

Hello John, WKL, and group.
 
I think it may have been me who picked up  Mal's expression "fizzl= ed=20 out" and applied it to the technical content, in particular construction=20 articles, in Rad Com.
 
Trying a little more seriously to look at the lack of activity on 500k=20= and=20 the content of Rad Com, I would say that the two are related.
I can understand how the change in content in our magazine reflect= s=20 similar unfortunate changes in other publications. I suspect this is primari= ly=20 driven by the desire to cut costs, after all changing to a news based format= =20 allows the editor/s to simply cut and paste articles from one source into th= e=20 blank pages which will become a future Rad Com.  As a good example of c= ut=20 and paste journalism, take a look at the 'announcement' of Tent Speaker= s=20 from a company called 'Blacks' on page 10 of the August edition.  You d= on't=20 have to read very far into that article to immediately see that it has=20= been=20 lifted from some piece of advertising junk mail that's arrived at the office= .=20 Heavily and badly edited, it's reduced size leaves out more facts than it=20 conveys. What for example is an EVA shell? Or come to that NXT speakers? We'= ll=20 never know, because that information didn't make it into the space the edito= r=20 had to fill. - A really good example of poor editing and productio= n.=20 It's complete tat.
 
So, what's the link to 500k activity?  Well, this group largely=20 consists of very capable individuals who can use a soldering iron and many o= f=20 those can actively design equipment of some sort for 500k. The thing we all=20= lack=20 is time and frequently we like to save those long designing tasks for someth= ing=20 that's right at the top of our interest agenda. There would undoubtedly be m= ore=20 500k operators if tested and widely published designs were available. But we= =20 need more than that. To really kick start 500k, someone needs to produce eit= her=20 kits or finished modules and that is where RadCom can be vital.  In the= =20 past I have produced designs and kits for 136kHz. The 300W amplifier kit was= =20 one, and the completed ready to go 136kHz preamp, designed by Dave G3YXM, wa= s=20 another. I was really surprised that although the preamp was only a handful=20= of=20 components, people would choose to buy it assembled and tested rather than b= uild=20 it themselves. Somewhere out there are 150 preamps and 50  300W transmi= tter=20 kits which must have had some effect on 136k activity.
Unfortunately, it costs quite a lot to make a kit available. You need=20 minimum order quantities for PCBs to make it cost effective, and a kit that=20 contains a few inches of say, 28 SWG wire means you have to buy a reel......= and=20 so on and so on.
Having an article published in RadCom was key to making a kit viable.&n= bsp;=20 But now, there are no significant articles being published. If, I submit an=20 article am I going to be told, we don't do that any more, or we like most=20 magazines commission articles?
 
Basically, last year I looked at 500k as a possible opportunity for=20 designing a DDS driven transmitter. 100W out, little 2 line LCD, PIC=20 microcontroller running a DDS. - All fairly straightforward and if run from=20= 12V,=20 a project that would attract people onto 500k. But the single reason why tha= t=20 didn't happen was because at the time when I had the idea, Rad Com hadn't=20 published a single significant construction article in the previous 12=20 months.
 
It takes about 300 - =A3400 to get something like this started. With no= means=20 of promoting it, those components just sit around selling one or two every 6= =20 months. The people who buy them arrive at an uninhabited 500k and mostl= y=20 give up. It needs a certain momentum to get it started. If 30 people arrive=20= on=20 the band in a short space of time, others think, that sounds like fun, I'll=20= join=20 them and you have sustained interest.
 Of course you can just put a design on the web, but then you= =20 lose the ability to get a 'critical mass' of people on the band.
With RadCom going to a newspaper format with almost zero 'freelance'=20 technical content, small kit suppliers and individuals are simply unwilling=20= to=20 take the risk.
 
Hope that helps
 
David G0MRF
 
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 17/07/2008 08:22:10 GMT Standard Time, jwgould@iee.o= rg=20 writes:
To=20= me=20 the important point that I tried to make in my posting, which has
drawn= no=20 comment, is the one I made about getting people to write up=20 their
experimental work for publication, and specifically that concerni= ng=20 500kHz.


To maintain progress on gaining a long-term allocation=20 around 500kHz we will
need to raise the profile nationally and=20 internationally of work undertaken
on 500kHz.  One way of doing th= is=20 is to get a few good technical articles
written, not just sharing knowl= edge=20 but encouraging others and providing
suitable designs to enable them to= =20 join in; good construction articles can
do just that.

73 John,=20 G3WKL
 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.1/1560 - Release Date: 7/18/2008 06=
:47
------=_NextPart_000_00D0_01C8E927.10FCD2E0--