Return-Path: Received: from rly-ma04.mx.aol.com (rly-ma04.mail.aol.com [172.20.116.48]) by air-ma09.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMA093-8a4485ac50033a; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:43:53 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-ma04.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMA046-8a4485ac50033a; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:43:48 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1K9Qyd-0003b8-BY for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:43:27 +0100 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1K9Qyc-0003az-HZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:43:26 +0100 Received: from yw-out-1718.google.com ([74.125.46.155]) by relay3.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1K9Qya-0004Rj-5n for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:43:26 +0100 Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 9so428379ywk.64 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:43:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=ZF+sH/OS5ewLZfsQy1DAQLOviPmWizNeRD3VZAuWja0=; b=OG7ynWeK6sfdwIh+J8BmuSWDxkuqPUUMO98sozaLFyMQ3tZPngYGSwXDCR2fMkk4Sh DPU7+WfSD2E1K3/52l9wGvwDnFv9qWSCP8PBH5DahC1rAU2i1hOZXxEpTJz82ar4r/0t 0CMbO5Qn+xGKly6tzu2qFSF/taXGCsx2hoL7c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=BX9wV59eXp7tpdTM3ToaSw3Os2Qz2Xw/iAs9VmaYavjAgXwTAFaTPAFDqnD+cwaW01 Pik5o+OegvUJkGhvXYea+//i9rwuPDUDglhzePOuDc1mUWrO/itS9bKYcFoclVJn7Lch 5No00DrINGJCGVlAS3+fgFUtWvIU666xpmlfM= Received: by 10.151.155.5 with SMTP id h5mr3747855ybo.178.1213908202630; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:43:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.50.21 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:43:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:43:22 +0100 From: "Andy Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <731EB49F88B309428FFDDD2423F810E441C00F@HERMES4.ds.leeds.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline References: <005301c8d182$93d802a0$0200a8c0@LapTop1> <008f01c8d189$47145a20$0900a8c0@AM> <485A7BC5.1080206@g3ysx.org.uk> <731EB49F88B309428FFDDD2423F810E441C00F@HERMES4.ds.leeds.ac.uk> DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: Loran C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: domain : post.thorcom.co ; SPF_helo = X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: domain : googlemail.co ; SPF_822_from = X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m203.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM = pass X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) The whole over-air interface for the mobile phone system has to be locked - the frame structure in GSM is critical to microseconds, and has to be synchronised between all base stations. I believe 3G is even more time-critical, with the PN codes carefully adjusted for multiple users, with fine tuning for base-mobile delay. So they must have accurate timing somewhere, but is it derived locally or is there a central distribution. -- Andy G4JNT www.scrbg.org/g4jnt 2008/6/19 Chris Trayner : >> I had been told - clearly from a not too informed > source - that GPS timing units were used at each base station. > >> Does the same apply to 3G (or GSM for that matter) mobile networks as well? > > I'd guess not. Why would they bother? They've got links (whether microwave or landline) back to somewhere more central. The more central places could have a time source, whether GPS or other. The time signals could be distributed in some priviledged data frame which doesn't wait in any queue. > > Mobile systems are complicated, of course, and there might be an unobvious reason to use GPS ... > > Regards, > Chris G4OKW >