Return-Path: Received: from rly-db01.mx.aol.com (rly-db01.mail.aol.com [172.19.130.76]) by air-db06.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDB061-aa947b1ca9032d; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:35:13 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-db01.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDB017-aa947b1ca9032d; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:34:27 -0500 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1JOy4y-0001My-9w for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:33:56 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1JOy4x-0001Mp-Lg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:33:55 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.128]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JOy4s-0007zz-5U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:33:55 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3408.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 337301C0008B for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:33:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.41.164]) by mwinf3408.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 715C71C00085 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:33:35 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20080212163335464.715C71C00085@mwinf3408.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <001201c86d95$050334b0$0300000a@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <001e01c86bd7$38723a90$0301a8c0@ken> <000701c86bed$4f9a69c0$0900a8c0@Lark> <0f9b01c86bf5$dda5a880$0300000a@AGB> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:33:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Karma: 0: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Windows Beacon TX/RX Software .. can anyone code such a thing ? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C86D94.FEBC4D80" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_helo : n X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_822_from : n ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C86D94.FEBC4D80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok Andy , =20 Thank's for your comment's, The 'idea' is based on what you could call 'oper= ating experience' over the last year on 500. The main concept being , 'Anyon= e with a PC and a sound card' could join in , hence the request for a 'pc' b= ased system.=20 =20 The clock issues, well that's a area that I do not have practical experien= ce of , It would appear events can be reasonably controlled , this would dic= tate the number of tx stations and number of multiplex measuring pulses , Q= uite wide guard bands may be required? =20 On the 5 mhz system , well yes that's a different ball game as out friends w= ould say , this system is aimed at the 'Garden shed gang' , open to all an= d if anyone wants to 'have a go' so much the better=20 =20 The -PIC- yes .. Mm .. Well . fair comment J =20 Tnx - G ..=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andy Talbot=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 8:07 AM Subject: Re: LF: Windows Beacon TX/RX Software .. can anyone code such a t= hing ? A problem with the scheme you suggest, Graham, is that PC clocks maintain=20= time badly, and will drift by several seconds overnight which makes a mocker= y of the idea of precisely timed sequential listening. They may be able to=20= acheive Internet synchronisation, but can this be set up to automatically up= date at the rate you will need, ie. every hour or two based on some of the c= lock drifts I have seen. That is why the existing beacon chains, both 5MHz and the IBP set, use GPS= timing. Passive receiving stations have their timekeeping reset by the act= ual 5MHz transmissions themselves. On your website, you do mention MSF timi= ng, but to do that in real time would consume another receiver / soundcard c= hannel. GPS is the only obvious way to go for transmitting stations. PC= s are not reknowned for their timekeeping abilities! Otherwise, the software is straightforward, although rather a waste of a P= C. If the GPS is available, then a =A31 PIC is all you need to control and= key a standalone transmitter that doesn't need soundcard drive. Andy G4JNT www.scrbg.org/g4jnt=20 On 10/02/2008, Graham wrote:=20 Hi all, This is something that may be of interest .. To a programmer or two or three ? There exists collectively the expertise, but can anyone see a wa= y of producing the system? The idea came initially from the 'Beacon Bedlam' , that existed south o= f Watford gap .. about the only time the skip distance on 500 was 'useful'= in that band conditions in the north west where quite quiet, later to prov= e a hindrance, There already exists a similar system on 5 Mhz , however the transmissio= n sites are defined and participation is only possible by 'passive recept= ion' not too appealing for 'experimentation' This is a 'proposal' the concept= is proven , but 'we' need the services of a programmer or two !! Similar thing's exist but are coded t= o use 'pics' , One of the main criteria is , that 'anyone' with a windows based pc shou= ld be able to download and install the tx/rx software and join in, be it a= s a TX station, simply claim a 'time slot' , or a passive observer being presented with all 5 slots as a amplitude/time plot. One of the main attractions would be : TX stations will be able to obs= erve the other beacons in the chain , eliminating the lonely vigil of being i= n perm ante transmit mode, while providing , at a glance, band conditions for all involved as well as reducing tx duty cycle time ! The number of TX stations is proposed as 5 in the chain , more may be possible , but the time control factor may prove too difficult to achiev= e within windows , but cw type software in beacon mode would appear top m= ake a reasonable job of time control ? Click on http://groups.google.com/group/uk500khz/web/the-big-beacon-proj= ect - or copy & paste it into your browser's address bar if that doesn't work. --=20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition.=20 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1271 - Release Date: 2/11/2008= 08:16 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C86D94.FEBC4D80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ok And= y=20 ,

 

Thank= =92s for your=20 comment=92s, The =91idea=92 is based on what you could call =91operating exp= erience=92=20 over the last year on 500. The main concept being , =91Anyone with a PC and=20= a=20 sound card=92 could join in , hence the request for a =91pc=92 based system.= =20

 

The cl= ock=20 issues, well that=92s a area that I do not  have  practi= cal experience of , It would appear=20 events can be reasonably controlled , this would dictate the number of tx=20 stations and number of multiplex =20 measuring pulses , Quite wide guard bands may be required?

 

On the= 5 mhz=20 system , well yes that=92s a different ball game as out friends would say ,=20= this=20 system is aimed at the  =91Gar= den shed=20 gang=92 , open to  all and if=20= anyone=20 wants to  =91have a go=92 so m= uch the=20 better

 

The=20= =96PIC-  yes =85.  Mm =85. Well =85 fair comment = J

 

Tnx=20= =96 G ..=20

----- Original Message -----
Andy Talbot
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 8:0= 7=20 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Windows Beacon TX/= RX=20 Software .. can anyone code such a thing ?

A problem with the scheme you suggest, Graham, is that PC clocks main= tain=20 time badly, and will drift by several seconds overnight which makes a= =20 mockery of the idea of precisely timed sequential listening.  They ma= y be=20 able to acheive Internet synchronisation, but can this be set up to=20 automatically update at the rate you will need, ie. every hour or two base= d on=20 some of the clock drifts I have seen.
 
That is why the existing beacon chains, both 5MHz and the IBP set, us= e=20 GPS timing.  Passive receiving stations have their timekeeping r= eset=20 by the actual 5MHz transmissions themselves.  On your website, you do= =20 mention MSF timing, but to do that in real time would consume another rece= iver=20 / soundcard channel.    GPS is the only obvious way to go f= or=20 transmitting stations.   PCs are not reknowned for their timekee= ping=20 abilities!
 
Otherwise, the software is straightforward, although rather a wa= ste=20 of a PC.   If the GPS is available, then a =A31 PIC is all you n= eed to=20 control and key a standalone transmitter that doesn't need soundcard=20 drive.
 
Andy  G4JNT
w= ww.scrbg.org/g4jnt
 
 
On 10/02/2008, Graham <g8fzk@g8fz= k.fsnet.co.uk>=20 wrote:=20
Hi=20 all,



This is something that may be of interest  = ;..=20 To a programmer or two or
three ? There exists collectively the=20 expertise, but can anyone see a way of
producing the=20 system?


The idea  came initially from the 'Beacon=20 Bedlam' , that existed south of
Watford gap .. about the only time th= e=20 skip distance on 500 was 'useful' in
that band conditions in the nort= h=20 west where quite quiet, later to  prove=20 a
hindrance,



There already exists a similar system on=20= 5=20 Mhz , however the transmission
sites are defined=20 and  participation is only possible by 'passive reception'
= not=20 too appealing for 'experimentation' This is a 'proposal' the concept=20 is
proven , but 'we' need the
services of a programmer or two !!=20 Similar thing's exist but are coded to
use 'pics' ,



On= e of=20 the main criteria is , that 'anyone' with a windows based pc should
b= e=20 able to download and install the tx/rx  software and join in,=20= be=20 it as a
TX station, simply claim a 'time slot' ,  or a pass= ive=20 observer being
presented with all 5 slots as a amplitude/time=20 plot.



One of the  main attractions would be : T= X=20 stations will be able to  observe
the other beacons in the=20 chain , eliminating the lonely vigil of being in
perm=20 ante

transmit mode, while providing , at a glance, band=20 conditions  for all
involved as well as reducing tx duty cy= cle=20 time !



The number of TX stations is proposed as 5 in the=20 chain , more may be
possible , but the time control factor may prove=20= too=20 difficult to achieve
within windows , but cw type software in beacon=20= mode=20 would appear top  make
a reasonable job of time control=20 ?

Click on http://groups.google.com/group/uk500khz/web/t= he-big-beacon-project
-=20 or copy & paste it into your browser's address bar if that=20 doesn't
work.








--

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free=20 Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1271 - Release Da= te:=20 2/11/2008 08:16
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C86D94.FEBC4D80--