Return-Path: Received: from rly-mf06.mx.aol.com (rly-mf06.mail.aol.com [172.20.29.176]) by air-mf08.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMF081-9694795fb1dea; Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:18:28 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-mf06.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMF067-9694795fb1dea; Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:18:06 -0500 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1JHJwO-0005c2-Uh for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:17:28 +0000 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1JHJwO-0005bt-CM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:17:28 +0000 Received: from smtp814.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.74]) by relay3.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JHJwL-00089B-MS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:17:28 +0000 Received: (qmail 83237 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2008 14:17:20 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=dB0LwsksHr5G+baQQl9L3LPg/Q39DOZ1GBQ61e34c+cBkfddN+UykvJYmY1OZMfcczlB0xd/0iTOzmkv7CPLm0aBj/eJyfvNqkhpV+K6I4fdI3nWkhwLDaRvWXdCBBJuuG6G2dCed0OKcZQ5FaVgiPQpeCO2JZ7oASfbq8ctn/w= ; Received: from unknown (HELO Lark) (alan.melia@btinternet.com@213.122.30.120 with login) by smtp814.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2008 14:17:19 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 5Xb7F1QVM1lMWYLYhgpYrpfmO1qSPCTtJ3wpnN2ogHqO_G8v_SgffrLWGVHaM3SBi4b_q6GCtA-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <005e01c85d01$81cff860$0900a8c0@Lark> From: "Alan Melia" To: References: <000501c85c3d$4fa2f820$0b01a8c0@weazle> <20080122135712.5D7C8F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:17:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Fenceline longwire Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_helo : n X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_822_from : n Hi Rik isn't it more likely to be the case that these low antennas are much more dependent on ground conditions, which are not modelled very well (or at all) in any of the simulators. In many cases the main reason they reject the "interference" for higher frequencies is the relatively deeper skin depth at LF/MF ?? This is good enough reason to follow JB and try it (if you have the facility of "open range" available!!) but I guess they would work so well over salt marshes !! Alan G3NYK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Strobbe" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 1:58 PM Subject: Re: LF: Fenceline longwire > J.B. , > > I simulated the fence wire with MMANA. > On HF (80m, 40m) I got the expected (bi)directivity and low offset angle. > But on 500kHz the horizontal pattern is almost omnidirectional and > the offset angle is 78 degrees. > It seems that (at least in theory) even 1200 foot is too short to be > long on 500kHz ... > Or does MMANA not work properly ? > > 73, Rik ON7YD