Return-Path: Received: from rly-mb05.mail.aol.com (rly-mb05.mail.aol.com [172.20.118.141]) by air-mb02.mail.aol.com (v120.9) with ESMTP id MAILINMB24-eb472f099b12d; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 07:16:57 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-mb05.mail.aol.com (v120.9) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMB55-eb472f099b12d; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 07:16:29 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ip0sM-0006cX-AP for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:16:18 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ip0sL-0006cO-T0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:16:17 +0000 Received: from sighthound.demon.co.uk ([80.177.174.126]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ip0sJ-0004n8-4o for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:16:17 +0000 Received: from saluki.ngw.uk.com (unknown [192.168.1.4]) by lurcher.twatt.local (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27EC4DA4D8 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2007 12:15:48 +0000 (GMT) Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 12:13:59 +0000 From: John GM4SLV To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <20071105121359.09bfb671@saluki.ngw.uk.com> In-Reply-To: <007301c81fa0$aabd9a00$65ebfc3e@g3kev> References: <007301c81fa0$aabd9a00$65ebfc3e@g3kev> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 2.6.0 (GTK+ 2.8.20; i486-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Karma: 0: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: CLASS D E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_helo : X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_822_from : On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 11:39:54 -0000 "hamilton mal" wrote: > Hi all > Tnx to all for the information, but some of the figures do not work > out. How are the % figures measured. > One simple method is to calculate the DC input PWR in watts (I x V) > then using an RF current meter calculate the PWR out (Isq x R) let R > be the norm 50 ohm D/load. Compare the two figures and calculate the > Eff % 73 de Mal/G3KEV >=20 >=20 >=20 Again...with my TX At 50W output :- Dc supply =3D 18.7v at 3.4A Efficiency =3D 78% The math's is trivial..... 18.7V x 3.4A =3D 63.58W DC input 50W RF output (as measured on a homebrew power meter calibrated against a =C2=A320,000 R&S Spectrum analyser and precision 40dB power attenuator) Efficiency =3D Power Out / Power In=20 50 / 63.58 =3D 0.786 Hence 78.6% efficient. Of course if you can't accurately measure any of the necessary quantities then the end result will be meaningless. Measuring RF output using an RF ammeter and 50 ohm load is all well and good...but...how accurate is your RF ammeter? How accurate is the 50 ohms. How is the 50 ohms measured... at DC? Is it the same at RF?=20 With a good Class-E amp and 90% efficiency it only takes one of your measurements to be out by a few percent to make the efficiency calculated to be really way out. Say (plucked out of thin air example):- DC input (most accurately measured parameters?) 13.8V at 5.3A =3D 73.14W RF output as measured by your RF ammeter/50 ohm load 1.17A in 50 ohms =3D 68.4W Efficiency =3D 93.6% If your RF ammeter reads 5% high... I =3D 1.23A in 50 ohms =3D 75W Out Efficiency =3D 103% Contact the Nobel Prize Committee... you've invented the prepetual motion machine..... If your 50 ohm load is really 49 ohms however... 1.17A in 49 ohms =3D 67W Efficiency =3D 91.7% Don't assume there's some black magic mumbo-jumbo Emperor's New Clothes syndrome with MOSFET amps just because it appears that you can't tie down a reliable efficiency figure. Little errors make big differences. The important thing is that they work, don't get hot and can produce serious power for little engineering. Try getting a 2N3055 to produce 150W on 500kHz. Cheers, John