X-GM-THRID: 1241081438804110844 X-Gmail-Labels: rsgb lf Delivered-To: daveyxm@gmail.com Received: by 10.78.172.10 with SMTP id u10cs542735hue; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 07:48:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.82.116.15 with SMTP id o15mr1895704buc.1183733337191; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 07:48:57 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id d23si10414573nfh.2007.07.06.07.48.47; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 07:48:57 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 193.82.116.20 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1I6oyl-0006Qn-6S for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 15:40:15 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1I6oyk-0006Qe-P1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 15:40:14 +0100 Received: from mailout10.sul.t-online.de ([194.25.134.21] helo=mailout10.sul.t-online.com) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1I6oyg-0004Tm-RH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 15:40:14 +0100 Received: from fwd32.aul.t-online.de by mailout10.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 1I6oyf-0006qP-01; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:40:09 +0200 Received: from 192.168.2.22 (Z68HTcZDQeL541xTdKawmOp5xhubGzhYbf-AkQBbYbXdF5y-B79xsI@[217.95.89.221]) by fwd32.t-online.de with esmtp id 1I6oyb-1I8eht0; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 16:40:05 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: hajo.brandt.dj1zb@t-online.de References: <468CBA6B.31094.AD8C67@dave.davesergeant.com> <001e01c7bf27$3ee3e160$3a248351@w4o8m9> <000c01c7bf2f$2da47830$2101a8c0@PCRoelof> <200707060903140076.2797F934@smtp.wanadoo.fr> In-Reply-To:<200707060903140076.2797F934@smtp.wanadoo.fr> To: X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 6.04.0003 Date: 06 Jul 2007 14:39 GMT Message-ID: <1I6oyb-1I8eht0@fwd32.t-online.de> X-ID: Z68HTcZDQeL541xTdKawmOp5xhubGzhYbf-AkQBbYbXdF5y-B79xsI X-TOI-MSGID: dfad98da-3600-4ddd-9cef-c07292e59c0b X-Karma: unknown: X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: 500 - beacons Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7168 Dear all, I would like to comment these MF propagation statements by my own experiences down below: "John RABSON" schrieb: > On 05/07/2007 at 18:06 Roelof Bakker wrote: > > [ ... ] > > >500 kHz has great potential; a former spark told me that they used to work > >PCH at MF from the Straight of Malaysia when HF was not usuable. They used > >one KW on a large Shell tanker. Around 1957, when I had been at sea, the average MF transmitter power on a cargo ship had been around 200 watts, but the ships had rather efficient inverted L or Tee aerials from mast to mast. Later on these large aerials were no longer possible due to a more compact ship design and the wish not to have wire aerials any longer which need to be removed for loading or unloading. They were replaced by self supporting verticals about ten meters high. The efficiency of these new aerials, in spite of fulfilling the so-called ITU "meter ampere" requirement, revealed to be considerably lower, however, and in the seventies, after an international measuring campaign, there had been an ITU decision to increase the "meter ampere figure" for (these new) MF aerials by a factor of two, with the consequence that transmitter power had to be increased by a factor of four, to maintain the minimum range requested by the international maritime safety treaty. Therefore I would regard a MF QSO from the Malakka Strait to PCH possible with a combination of an old style MF aerial (feasible on a large tanker, no need to be removed) and the 1 kW power only, but even then it is hard to believe for me that this should have been a regular communication mode, especially because of the large land masses in between. But I shoud add that I have never been in these waters myself. > And one of my mentors, who used to be a Sparks, told of when he called an Alaskan coast station > on 500 with the standard message saying he was going into port and was answered by a station in > New Zealand. The Pacific, on the other hand, is entirely difficult. It is the largest sea area on earth, with only a few islands in between. At night on watch at 500 kHz, it was quite commom in the north Pacific to hear exotic calls like ZKN, Niue Radio, or ZKR, Rarotonga Radio from the Cook Islands in the south, to remember only a few. Ships I have met and looked up in the ITU list of ship stations quite often were equipped just with MF, but sailed from Australia and New Zealand up to the US and Canada (and even Alaska as reported). From an old ITU list of 1959 I can still recall that the powers of ZKN and ZKR at that time were in the order of 250 to 300 watts. This shows that MF has been quite dependable at night over at least half the Pacific. On the other hand it is my feeling that just the fact that the New Zealand Coast station responded to a QTP message of a ship going into port in Alaska, that receiving this message across the whole Pacific might have been regarded a special or rare case by the operator (or that both operators have met before). In general 500 kHz operators are rather reluctant or conservative in using the key. 500 kHz has been a watch and distress frequency and not for chatting. HW? 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB > > John F5VLF > > > > >