X-GM-THRID: 1239192540326630087 X-Gmail-Labels: rsgb lf Delivered-To: daveyxm@gmail.com Received: by 10.78.172.11 with SMTP id u11cs166306hue; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:55:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.82.186.5 with SMTP id j5mr4525763buf.1181865322646; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:55:22 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 2si803877nfv.2007.06.14.16.55.18; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:55:22 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 193.82.116.20 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) DomainKey-Status: bad (test mode) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Hyz6t-0007zL-BF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Jun 2007 00:52:15 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Hyz6s-0007zC-Ot for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Jun 2007 00:52:14 +0100 Received: from smtp812.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.72]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hyz6r-0005b2-Kz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Jun 2007 00:52:14 +0100 Received: (qmail 14564 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2007 23:51:06 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=XBKw2h1N7mK6ljbdH3iUL+lZ54/XEamxIcbOZEeyKxlqaZ2NMTTZg9H32a1DUKNBrf3LscCNkjGsJeiBc0DLngAnhooemLdteJxAEH0BGXlVQaYp3iDDqmQrZIs/tce8Jad827oFMsGg++gvQxBMBwficMRIyk3K9p1HPZ1oy5Y= ; Received: from unknown (HELO w4o8m9) (james.moritz@btopenworld.com@81.131.22.177 with login) by smtp812.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2007 23:51:05 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: n2LKoBAVM1kYnUAfoHCpocMIcY.a0GlnOvRqJeWrBjNMLLKID8CCuMypnmugeQm7wx.x98mNNQ-- Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.5.472 [269.8.15/848]); Fri, 15 Jun 2007 00:51:04 +0100 Message-ID: <001101c7aede$de6ff380$b1168351@w4o8m9> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <001f01c7ae26$3474ab40$c2137ad5@w4o8m9> <20070614125512.BD7D431E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 00:51:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: M0BMU ERP on 500k Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1066 Dear Rik, Johan, LF Group, I should explain that I re-measured my "10m high x 40m" inverted L, which is actually 9.5m and 10.5m at the ends, and reaches a lowest point of about 8.7m near the middle, partly due to the wire sagging and partly due to the ground not being perfectly flat. Based on this, I calculated a somewhat lower radiation resistance, 0.022ohms at 136k and 0.31ohms at 503.8k. This should give about 88mW ERP at 503.8k with 0.4A antenna current, and at 136.0k, with 3.9A antenna current, ERP should be 610mW. This compares with the values derived from the field strength measurements of 43mW at 503.8k, and 180mW at 136.0k. The efficiency calculation must also take into account the resistance at the antenna feed point (essentially the loss resistance). At 503.8k this was 25ohms, making the TX power 4.0W. Assuming the antenna has 2.6dB directive gain over a dipole, 43mW ERP corresponds to radiated power of 24mW, making the efficiency 24mW/4W = 0.59%. At 136.0k, Rloss was 63ohmsand TX power was therefore 958W. Radiated power was 100mW, making efficiency 0.01% at 136k. Hence the factor of 59. The difference in efficiency could be divided into 3 areas: i) Increase in radiation resistance at higher frequency - assuming the antenna remains electrically "small", Rrad should increase by a factor of 13.7 (11.4dB) from 136.0k to 503.8k. ii) Decrease in loss resistance at higher frequency - Rloss decreases by a factor of 2.5 (4.0dB) from 136.0k to 503.8k, for this particular antenna. iii) Changes in an additional "site loss" that represents the difference between the ERP calculated from antenna geometry and antenna current, and the ERP determined from the field strength measurements. This site loss at 136k is 180mW/610mW = 5.3dB, while at 503.8k it is 43mW/88mW = 3.1dB, making the difference in site loss between the two frequencies 2.2dB This adds up to 17.6dB difference in efficiency in total, which is a factor of 58... there is a bit of rounding off involved! The "site loss" is substantial in both cases, although less at the higher frequency. This was also true in comparing the results of FS measurements I did on 73kHz and 136kHz some years ago. I don't think ground losses have a significant effect on the propagating signal level over these relatively short distances; if they did, I would expect the field strength to decrease more rapidly than 1/distance, and so give an ERP that decreases with distance, which it does not. For the same reason, I think that the "site loss", whatever it is, must occur close to the antenna, certainly within a couple of hundred metres, otherwise this would also cause the ERP calculated from the field strength measurements to vary with distance - this is why I think the term "site loss" is justified. I guess that for this argument to be convincing, what would be desirable would be to do experiments on an antenna on a site that gave field strengths corresponding exactly to the calculated values, i.e. site loss of 0dB, which would probably need a big flat field somewhere. Of course, it would be even more interesting if there were an antenna with significant "site gain"... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU