X-GM-THRID: 1237916621554433776 X-Gmail-Labels: rsgb lf Delivered-To: daveyxm@gmail.com Received: by 10.78.172.1 with SMTP id u1cs32470hue; Wed, 30 May 2007 16:54:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.146.11 with SMTP id t11mr10585hud.1180569288850; Wed, 30 May 2007 16:54:48 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id c22si871709ika.2007.05.30.16.54.44; Wed, 30 May 2007 16:54:48 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 193.82.116.20 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) DomainKey-Status: bad (test mode) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1HtXxS-0001bo-14 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 May 2007 00:52:02 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1HtXxR-0001bf-Bz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 May 2007 00:52:01 +0100 Received: from smtp811.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.71]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HtXxQ-0003Wm-01 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 May 2007 00:52:01 +0100 Received: (qmail 20266 invoked from network); 30 May 2007 23:51:54 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=JVEhXy/ZicL8C8x6kz+IQfitVW3RhE5xzOgKe1HUvfL5TJqmlxnMdzpiVvb0EU5uBG6+NHrUEiv/B2OIIsAeAEjVbD1+G5Dv18YzHEej/yFaBmQ/49fuNCArYkl/REJo5/WtNAEZK8+6LjuPnsuB0WndzxUEf4z6NGRkJRuA8hk= ; Received: from unknown (HELO w4o8m9) (james.moritz@btopenworld.com@213.122.33.82 with login) by smtp811.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2007 23:51:49 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: lourAkUVM1km9wrYi85G3ZfHJJMOnuk0mweVsIl3.3.UWUpAPSuw.zOerxqgqFThMhUTQ59Mrw-- Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.5.472 [269.8.4/825]); Thu, 31 May 2007 00:51:55 +0100 Message-ID: <001801c7a315$80fc2f40$52217ad5@w4o8m9> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <341873.21191.qm@web86408.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 00:42:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: Field Strength Meter Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C7A31C.90236900" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,UP_TO_OR_MORES autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1524 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C7A31C.90236900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Chris, Interesting to see your field strength measurements - would also be = interested to know how this compares to any calculated value you have = for the ERP of your station. A few years back, I made several hundred FS measurements on my 136kHz = and 73kHz station, looking at the effects of antenna configuration, = distance etc., using a mobile measuring set-up with the measuring = antenna mounted on the roof of my car. I found that one could expect = "random" variations within a range +/-3dB of ERP at different sites. = These variations were not just random errors; one could return to the = same site months later and measure the same variation in field strength. = I came to the conclusion that things in the environment were causing = some enhancement or reduction in field strength; presumably conductors = such as wire fences, buried cables, etc. acting as parasitic antenna = elements. Some sites produced much larger variations up to +/-10dB or = more. On inspection there was usually a fairly likely-looking cause for = this, such as overhead power lines, or large metal structures such as = buildings and bridges, but there was not always anything immediately = obvious to be seen. One road leading away from my house gave wildly = varying results along its length - it turned out that the overhead = telephone wire from my house ran along this road, and high and low FS = readings were separated by about the right distance to be interpreted as = a lambda =3D 2200m standing wave on the overhead wire. But provided a = substantial number of measurements are available, it is easy to spot = which measurements are suspect and check them, and to get a good average = value. Something worth checking is that you get a deep directional null = with a loop or ferrite rod antenna; if not, the measuring site is = probably dubious. I expect if one were only to use measurement sites = that were in the middle of open ground, a good distance from any large = metallic objects, variations between measurements would be reduced = greatly. Unfortunately, there seems to be a shortage of accessible sites = like this near me... Regarding the letter in RadCom, the difficulties of field strength = measurements depend a lot on the frequency. I have some experience of HF = FS measurements - in this range, connecting cables and any other fair = sized bit of metal can become resonant, and can produce huge peaks and = troughs in the results without careful attention. At VHF and above, = multipath propagation becomes a headache, with multiple unwanted = reflections from the ground and any nearby objects. I think LF/MF is = relatively straightforward in comparison - the main difficulty being = that you need to be at least several hundred metres away from the TX = antenna to get good measurements. But once the problems have been = identified, measurement results are usually very consistent. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C7A31C.90236900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Chris,
 
Interesting to see your field strength = measurements=20 - would also be interested to know how this compares to any calculated = value you=20 have for the ERP of your station.
 
A few years back, I made several = hundred FS=20 measurements on my 136kHz and 73kHz station, looking at the effects of = antenna=20 configuration, distance etc., using a mobile measuring set-up with the = measuring=20 antenna mounted on the roof of my car. I found that one could = expect=20 "random" variations within a range +/-3dB of ERP at different = sites. These=20 variations were not just random errors; one could return to the same = site months=20 later and measure the same variation in field strength. I came to = the=20 conclusion that things in the environment were causing some enhancement = or=20 reduction in field strength; presumably conductors such as wire fences, = buried=20 cables, etc. acting as parasitic antenna elements. Some sites produced = much=20 larger variations up to +/-10dB or more. On inspection there was usually = a=20 fairly likely-looking cause for this, such as overhead power lines, or = large=20 metal structures such as buildings and bridges, but there was not always = anything immediately obvious to be seen. One road leading away from my = house=20 gave wildly varying results along its length - it turned out that the = overhead=20 telephone wire from my house ran along this road, and high and low FS = readings=20 were separated by about the right distance to be interpreted as a lambda = =3D 2200m=20 standing wave on the overhead wire. But provided a substantial number of = measurements are available, it is easy to spot which measurements are = suspect=20 and check them, and to get a good average value. Something worth = checking is=20 that you get a deep directional null with a loop or ferrite rod = antenna; if=20 not, the measuring site is probably dubious. I expect if one = were only=20 to use measurement sites that were in the middle of open ground, a good = distance=20 from any large metallic objects, variations between measurements would = be=20 reduced greatly. Unfortunately, there seems to be a shortage = of accessible=20 sites like this near me...
 
Regarding the letter in RadCom, the = difficulties of=20 field strength measurements depend a lot on the frequency. I have some=20 experience of HF FS measurements - in this range, connecting cables and = any=20 other fair sized bit of metal can become resonant, and can produce = huge=20 peaks and troughs in the results without careful attention. At VHF = and=20 above, multipath propagation becomes a headache, with multiple unwanted=20 reflections from the ground and any nearby objects. I think LF/MF is = relatively=20 straightforward in comparison - the main difficulty being that you need = to be at=20 least several hundred metres away from the TX antenna to get good = measurements.=20 But once the problems have been identified, measurement results are = usually very=20 consistent.
 
Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C7A31C.90236900--