X-GM-THRID: 1230279750452072946 X-Gmail-Labels: rsgb lf Delivered-To: daveyxm@gmail.com Received: by 10.115.73.3 with SMTP id a3cs1093538wal; Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:50:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.195.20 with SMTP id s20mr14173924qbf.1173286200542; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 08:50:00 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id o53si2168548nfa.2007.03.07.08.49.58; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 08:50:00 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 193.82.116.20 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1HOzFr-0001jQ-U8 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 16:44:43 +0000 Received: from [193.82.59.130] (helo=relay2.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1HOzFr-0001jH-1T for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 16:44:43 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by relay2.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HOzFp-0007q2-4k for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 16:44:42 +0000 Received: from [147.197.215.113] (helo=tucana.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 1HOzFb-0006uZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 16:44:27 +0000 Received: from [147.197.164.230] (helo=RD40002) by tucana.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1HOzFo-0005UW-Tb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 16:44:40 +0000 From: "james moritz" To: Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 16:44:28 -0000 Message-ID: <000001c760d7$df4c4060$e6a4c593@RD40002> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <002f01c760d1$a133b3e0$0300a8c0@lark> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-M-UH-MailScanner-Information: UH-M-mail X-UH-MailScanner: No Virus detected X-UH-MailScanner-Information: X-H-UH-MailScanner: No Virus detected X-UH-MailScanner-From: j.r.moritz@herts.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,AWL=-0.381 Subject: LF: RE: ERP spreadsheet ammended Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3028 Dear Alan, LF Group, I think the main thing about ERP is that it is the term Ofcom and = similar bodies use to define radiated power. So if you are writing an = application to Ofcom, you need to use ERP in their accepted sense, whether or not it is very relevant to LF or MF operation. The reality of amateur antennas at LF and MF is of course a very long = way from theoretical dipoles in free space, infinitesimal monopoles over infinite ground planes, etc. As Prof. Mike Underhill likes to remind us, = the relationships between antenna efficiency, TX power and radiated power = are complicated and not beyond controversy even today. But the practical = upshot of the ERP definition Ofcom uses is that it implies a particular field strength at a given ERP and distance from the TX. So if ever Ofcom wish = to enforce the regulations, they can do so by measuring the field strength = E at some suitable distance d and calculating the ERP =3D (Ed)^2 /50; it = excuses them from having to argue about antennas, RF current, efficiency, = radiation patterns and all the rest.=20 Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Alan Melia Sent: 07 March 2007 15:56 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: ERP spreadsheet ammended Hi all Jim has indicated that the formula I used to calcualte the = radiation resistance is in error. I claim immunity for ridicule as the formula is quoted in page R-9 of the Admiralty Handbook vol 2 1938 !! :-)) However he also says that I have used the total radiated power rather = than the more strictly defined ERP which relates to a mythical dipole. I aver that this is more meaningful for very short amateur LF aerials (and its = in our favour !!) My stance is somewhat supported by the measurements made = by Jim and Christer SM6PXJ several years ago on 136kHz where they found the measured fireld strength were about 6dB below those expected = theoretically. Thus the aerial current calculation may yield a figure that is too high = in "ERP" but the field strength generated is expected to be correct in practice. That is my defence, melud !! I am a "reasonable man". An ammended version has been posed to my web site Cheers de Alan G3NYK